Lahore bombing - where is Christian god?

[lulucappuccino]

Ok, I know this is a very clichéd question, but 70+ people, mainly children, brutally murdered at a Christian, Easter celebration.

Families gone. Lives shattered. Unbearable pain.

WHY would god allow this?

Aibu to think this sort of thing proves there is no Christian god. Or if there is, "he's" not a good force?

Sallying - I didn't 'find' one. If I was to go looking, I could mention more, but that is the one that I remember the name of (and have to go googling for).
Having read further about that case, it seems to be more of a fight over land that a purely religious one.

Are you aware that the 'everyday killing of christians' is actually less of a problem that the 'everyday killing' of muslims by muslims that is happening now in the Middle East?
Yes of course I am aware. I'm trying not to be sidetracked from the OP which was erroneously referring to a 'Christian God'.

Does that diminish the Christian deaths? No. But neither does it diminish the Muslim deaths at the hands of Muslims.
As above.

Are ANY of these killers representative of the majority of the followers of their faith? I would say no.
I am certain that is the case.

This thread really has gone adrift, and duplicate others. So I'm leaving it now.

Someone said Muslims are a threat but it's not the majority. Of course it's not the majority, neither were the nazis the majority in Germany. That doesn't lessen the atrocitys they carried out, because they aren't the majority. I really don't understand why anyone would want to play it down.
Muslims are not only killing Christians they're also killing each other.....and some on here are determined to play that down by foolishly spouting "it's only the minority".

Inis
I don't think anyone is playing down the seriousness of the terror threat.

But it is important to differentiate between terrorism in the name of religion, and the religion itself. It's a hugely important distinction that, if not made, leads to attacks on innocent people.

I think we all know the difference bluemoon I'm talking about the atrocities carried out across the world in the name of Islam. There really is no need for anyone to tell us that it's only the minority. The whole thread annoys me because....the OP, rather than be outraged at the evil killers who carried out the atrocity, would rather put the blame onto someone else. There have always been atrocitys across the world and, regardless of who has done them, we should never look to blame anyone other than the ones who have committed them.

Inis
"There have always been atrocitys [sic] across the world and, regardless of who has done them, we should never look to blame anyone other than the ones who have committed them."

We can't look to blame others, but we should look as to why they occurred and it is usually down to religion of one description or another.

We should also ask, as the OP did, if there is such a thing as a Christian god, why didn't he protect 'them' against the bombs.

As I, and many others have said, without religion, there's a chance none of this would be needed to be asked.

You said "the biggest threat to the world today is Islam. Plucking random (and rare in comparison) atrocities that have been committed in the name of Christianity won't change that. It's childish to deny it."

That directly goes against your comment of "regardless of who has done them...". You blame Islam instead of individuals yet refuse to let Christianity be blamed for their atrocities. Please tell me you can at least see the hypocrisy there!

"religion's greatest trick wasn't convincing some people that there was a god who is all powerful. It was convincing everyone else that you couldn't ridicule that idea".

herecomes I haven't said anywhere that I don't blame Christians for atrocities. But you are seriously blaming individuals for the atrocities carried out by Isis for example? That's ridiculous. But my saying...."regardless of who has done them" means exactly that, and it doesn't go against anything I have said. If huge groups of Christians were killing innocent Muslims and/or other Christians across the world I would be equally enraged. I certainly wouldn't go blaming Allah, a Christian God or any other God. I'd rightly blame the perpetrators of the outrages. I really don't see an argument. It isn't large groups of militant Christians who are rampaging across the world causing mayhem and carnage.

Isis is a highly organised militant group of hundreds of thousands, yet you blame it on individuals.? Wow.

For the third time I have reported your last post as it is a personal attack.

I hope Mumsnet delete it as they deleted your previous two on page 11, you discredit yourself when you become personal about other posters.

My previous post refers to "herecome" and the post written at 16.55

Yet again "herecome" another personal attack.

Reported......

herecome yes go and have a nice rest dear. You're getting a little confused with it all.

As I, and many others have said, without religion, there's a chance none of this would be needed to be asked.

Do you think there would be no wars, terrorists or conflicts if there was no religion? I think this is unlikely. Humans would still form groups and ideologies, and some of these would be negative. They'd also still fight over resources and territory.

Most wars in human history have not been caused by religion.

For the report Five Key Questions Answered on the Link between Peace and Religion by the Institute for Economics and Peace, researchers looked at all the wars in 2013, and found no "general causal relationship" between religion and conflict. The study found that

"There is no clear statistical relationship between either the presence or the absence of religious belief and conflict." and

"Factors other than religious differences are more significant in determining the levels of peace. These factors are corruption, political terror, gender and economic inequality as well as political instability."

Also

"Countries with greater religious freedoms are generally more peaceful" and "The most influential factor affecting religious freedom is the government type. Full democracies are the most peaceful and have the greatest level of religious freedom, regardless of the type of religious belief or various religious characteristics."

The above research is also referred to in this Huffington Post article:

"The Institute for Economics and Peace report also found that having less religion in a country doesn’t make it more peaceful. The proportion of atheists in a country had no bearing on levels of peace."

"Countries with the highest levels of atheism – mainly communist or former communist states like Russia and the Czech Republic – were not necessarily the most peaceful. North Korea, which has one of the lowest rates of people practising religion, was one of ten 'least peaceful' countries in world last year, according to the report."

The Huffington Post article also says

"The Encyclopedia of Wars, an extensive study published in 2008, chronicles 1,763 wars throughout human history. It names just 123 as 'religious in nature' – a little under 7%."

Thankyou Rock. Suggesting WW2 was a Christian war was barmy!!

I suggested that WW2 was, by and large, fought by Christians (or people from christian countries) I didn't actually say one side was Christian and another not.

I also gave a quote from Hitler where he stated that his fighting against Jews was 'in the name of the Lord'.

I'm not sure whats barmy about that.

But I guess people will only see what they want to see.

Like sallyingforth, I'm outta here.

But I guess people will only see what they want to see.
I presume that applies to you too bluemoon
But Hitlers hatred of the Jews wasn't what the 2nd ww was about. Apart from that he wasn't exactly fighting against Jews. The Jews were unable to put up a fight. He just had them murdered.

Blue moon - most of your points I found confusing and flawed.

Havent read the thread.....but in Abrahamic religions God is the same.

Christian God, Allah, etc, they are the same God.

You know that right OP?

In case people haven't got time to read the thread I'll summarise.

Non-Christians - God was not there because he doesn't exist

Christians - God does not control human's actions in the way atheists think he should if he existed. It's a bit personal and complex so I cannot really discuss it here.

My view:

1. Atrocities such as this one are carried out in the name of religion because of historic persecution, power and control of a religious/ethnic group by other religions/ethnic groups. The logic and reasoning has lost any meaning. It has always been thus.
2. Having a strongly held faith will give comfort to the victims' families.
3. Anger and violence will still continue and probably get even worse.
4. Religion and bigotry will not form any part of the solution.

There have always been atrocitys across the world and, regardless of who has done them, we should never look to blame anyone other than the ones who have committed them.

Right. Never ever blame systems, context, culture or governments. Only ever individuals, who presumably exist in a vacuum.

Where did I say that? . Someone else said we should blame individuals. I was meaning we shouldn't blame God for atrocities committed., as the OP was doing. I mentioned Isis and someone said, they are just individuals. I said that is ridiculous. I really don't understand. You need to read the posts again, you've got confused with who said what.

I think it is testament there is no 'god' as we in any religion see it.

I believe in a god like I believe there is an ultimate force that makes bacteria grow in your shoes, I believe there is a greater reason as to why we are here, but there is no man in the sky to answer prayers and he has no conscientious power over us

InisSunset Wed 30-Mar-16 02:04:32
Where did I say that? . Someone else said we should blame individuals. I was meaning we shouldn't blame God for atrocities committed., as the OP was doing. I mentioned Isis and someone said, they are just individuals. I said that is ridiculous. I really don't understand. You need to read the posts again, you've got confused with who said what.

Tue 29-Mar-16 16:04:00
I think we all know the difference bluemoon I'm talking about the atrocities carried out across the world in the name of Islam. There really is no need for anyone to tell us that it's only the minority. The whole thread annoys me because....the OP, rather than be outraged at the evil killers who carried out the atrocity, would rather put the blame onto someone else. There have always been atrocitys across the world and, regardless of who has done them, we should never look to blame anyone other than the ones who have committed them.