DD is calling social services on me in the morning

[moodymelting]

DD is 13 and has turned Kevin and Perry overnight.
She has turned into a nightmare.
When ever she is told off she resorts to telling me to 'go away and leave her alone and name calling or covering her ears shouting la la la . She will NEVER admit she is in the wrong or apologise. She will do nothing at all to help in the house.

She spilt sweets she had bought all over my bedroom floor along with cut up tights and cardboard she had been messing with. I asked her twice to move it and she refused resorting to her go away and leave me alone tactic. When I did not back down she has gone mad! She walked into the kitchen and tipped my rubbish bin all out on the floor saying she was not picking it up and I could.

Apparently I want a perfect child because she's never done anything wrong, I am selfish, mean, she hates me. I'm a rubbish Mum and she would be better off with a different Mum than me who is a tight mess because I have refused to go tomorrow to pick up something for her when she's behaved like this.
Oh and she barricaded the room door shut with a chair so I couldn't go to bed.

I have told her that if she likes I will dial the number myself and I am sure they will rush right over to a child behaving like a total brat in-between dealing with the neglected kids who have no clothing/food or being abused

How on earth do you deal with the teen strops????!!!
N/C btw as everyone on my Facebook will know my user name otherwise!

Zigzag Fights is perphaps the wrong word. But arguments which involve shouting (I have these too). It can start off with the most ridiculous things - she would like a bigger piece of meat, he says there isn´t enough, have to share, she says siblings have more than her, it`s not fair, he asks her to stop, she doesn´t, he then gets annoyed and sends her to room. She refuses, more shouting. She eventually goes to room - still shouting about how unfair it is He has locked horns (as pp said) and it all escalated. It would be so easy to diffuse this.

I`m not perfect either. I sometimes lock horns too, but trying my best not to, or just do it important things.

How did you deal with it all zigzag? I try to diffuse things but sometimes get told I am "undermining him" or "not supporting him". Well it´s true, because I don´t always agree with the way he does things.

mathanxiety you´re right, it does make me question myself and feel unsure. I will have a look at the books you mentioned, thank you. I recognise some of the characteristics in dh. It sounds like the books will help me see some things more clearly. I am unsure where this will then lead, if I see things clearly and he doesn`t. He does take advice from some people, so is not totally closed to suggestions. We have talked about parenting recently, he has a different view of the same event (sometimes he sheds an interesting light on my own behaviour) and it would be good to talk about these in parenting classes or with a counsellor.

Sorry moody didn´t mean to take over. I hope the outbursts don´t happen very often. I am going to buy the books too.

willsee, have you tried talking to him when it's just you and him? When he says you are undermining him do you back down or stay quiet? Or do you say that you support him but that you think no one is going to get anywhere and you are trying to calm things down? Your DD sounds like she is feeling hard done by or the scape goat. Might be an idea to figure out why she feels this way? Is she the oldest? Have you and/or your DH become a lot tougher with her, due to her outbursts?

We all do things differently and differently can in most cases be good. The children get a balance but your DH and your DD are getting into power struggles. Power struggles usually happen because the people involved are not calm and they can either end by being diffused or with one punishing the other. This brings short term relief but doesn't fix the underlying problem.

Have a chat with your DH and say that you both need to change the way you deal with DD because the current way is not working and causing misery.

Firstly he is modelling anger and frustration and she is mirroring it! He is the adult and he is the one who has the power to change the dynamics. If she copies his outbursts then she will eventually copy him if he shows a calmer and more capable way of dealing with her.

The absolute best way to deal with a child that is trying to engage you in a power struggle is to disengage. For this you have to have 100% confidence in yourself. Power struggles often arise from a fear that the adult will "lose control" of the child and the situation. To disengage and have that attitude of "words don't hurt, rant away" it takes a lot of self discipline.

Diffusion is another tactic he can try, she thinks their pieces of meat are bigger "I'm glad you like the meat, would you like to help cook it next time, I can teach you?" Or let her dish up the plates and ask her (if she puts way too much on hers) if she thinks that's fair. Etc The other thing is just walk away. If she rants, and won't leave, then leave yourselves. She will not be able to engage you in battle.

I think the key is for your DH to know that these types of tactics are not "weak" that he is not letting her get her own way or letting her speak to him like that. He is showing her that if she doesn't speak to him with respect then he will not give her his time. This is a different kind of power and one that can yield much better results because it is more reflective of the wider world. If someone we don't know acts like a dick and pisses us off we ignore them.

I've just messaged you Willsee.

I will say on the thread though that you have every right to 'undermine' him if you believe that his behaviour has strayed into the realms of bullying or violence (given that violence has a broad definition and doesn't necessarily involve physical contact).

Backing him up in that would mean you're colluding and participating, in the same way that the people around bullies have an obligation to step in and stop what's going on, you have a right to stop it if it's happening in the privacy of your own home.

Some situations aren't as black and white as you'd like them to be before you make the call on the behaviour, but you have to draw a line somewhere and once it's been crossed it's time to make a stand (that makes it sound easy but I know it's really not).

Thanks AgentZigzag I just messaged you back. Yes, that "undermining" is a load of nonsense (to use the polite word). Especially as he intervenes in my confrontations with dd, but he says he can´t bear to hear dd talk to me like that. Nice intention, but undermining.

Also thanks tomato. He is definitely modeling anger and frustration. I am no perfect parent: I sometimes do it too, but I regret it, apologise to dd and we then talk things through. He digs in, closes off. I am trying really hard on the diffusion, on using humour or walking away or just riding the rant out (I really like the tips from "how to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk..." book , and when I am feeling calm, they are quite effective, I think) . He`s excellent at all these things at work, and yet at home.....He does a lot of training with young people at work - but if the dc make a mistake in their homework, he gets easily frustrated and shouty. Puzzling how emotional we can get at home. Maybe he is the one who is "too emtionally involved" here .

I´ve spent part of the day reading the Bancroft book - there are elements I recognise there. Luckily lots of things don´t apply. It points out some things, which have made me think, and which I will talk to him about.

'he gets easily frustrated and shouty. Puzzling how emotional we can get at home.'

Because he knows he can get away with it, which IMO comes down to that power imbalance thing again. Technically she's not allowed to defend herself (because that's answering back) leaving him free to vent any frustrations he might have on her.

Him doing that doesn't mean he's a Bad Person, but he should recognise and acknowledge it for what it is and in what situations it happens in so he can try to rein it in.

I don't think the child is the one engaging the adult here in the power struggle, Tomato. I think it's the other way around. I see an adult here who has decided it;s his way or the highway, for everyone at home. Willsee is being set up to step back from her child even when she sees her being treated in a way she feels she should not be treated. She is accused of undermining him when she tries to diffuse, not even when she takes the DD's side. What the H here wants is to be allowed to throw his weight around, to pull rank he assumes he has over everyone else.

DD is saying others have more meat, etc. than her -- would you say there is some degree of division among the siblings? Jealousy? Feeling that there is unfairness? Situations where one parent tries to assert dominance usually feature a higher than usual degree of rivalry and division among children.

He most definitely is the one who is too emotionally involved here. I assume from the "" "" you used that you are accused of this? If so, then I suspect he has a mindset that men are able to cut through the woolly female bullshit and you are all beneath him. The delusion of male superiority is not a pleasant thing to see in action at home. He does this at home because he gets away with it. That stuff would never fly at work.

I agree with Agent here.

Yes, I have been accused of being " too emotionally involved"- with my dd? Ffs!
And yes, there is a lot of sibling rivalry between dcs, especially between dds. I don't know if this is above average, seems normal when hearing and seeing other dcs. It's still very hard to manage, and a constant source of conflict.

Nah, of course it wouldn't fly at work. At work he is the total opposite, seen as example of equality etc.

Yes, I guess I do let him get away with lots. That realisation is right, but leaves me feeling even more blamed and powerless for what is going on at home.

That realisation should leave you feeling you have more power over the situation not less.

I bet he comes across to other people as a great bloke, and he'll see himself as that too, and I'm sure he is most of the time. He'll justifying anything to the contrary as him being forced into behaving like that (by your DD's behaviour) or cast in the bad guy role (by your (by his thinking) skewed definition of the right/wrong way of treating the DC).

But you don't have to accept that, you can make your own judgements.

Does he behave like this with others?
No.
Do you or your DD make him behave like this?
No.
Would you (or him) have the right to stop anther man who wasn't her father treating her like this?
Yes.

Decide at what point it would have escalated too far (is it to push your DD with his hands, break her things, make her scared of him, frighten the other DC into behaving) and stop it at the step before that.

It's possible that your DD's behaviour may get 'worse' over the next few years, how will he cope with that challenge to his authority? Teenagers don't always want to back down and defer, I can accept that in my DD (and suspect you can in yours) but can he? How far would he go to press the point home?