To think there aren't enough decent men to go round?

[elementofsurprise]

I am sick of men - haven't had a realtionship for ages, so it's not caused by any particular one, just a general observation of the crap specimens the patriarchy has produced.

Was hit on yet again last night by a man who seemed perfectly nice and intelligent and polite to start with but got weirdly pressuring and controlling when I tried to politely decline. Is it so impossible for men to actually be pleasant and get to know someone? Must they always think with their dicks? (Wasn't out partying btw!)

And the ones that appear to be pleasant functional human beings turn into childish selfish assholes after a while - is there a way to avoid this? Because being friends for months/years first (so you think you know them) just seems to lead to a situation which is a prolonged 'chase' for them and they don't want you once they have you... My last boyfriend treats his female friends far, far better than he treated me.

I am 30 and worried I will never have a partner, because the cliche appears to be true - "all the good ones are taken"! And there seems to be more nice, normal, considerate etc etc women around than men. Sadly I am coming to the conclusion that this isn't just perception, but due to societal expctations, meaning men are just more likely to be overgrown children/inconsiderate/selfish/poor lifestyle/alcholic/poor hygeine/other massive red flag etc.

Sigh.

Perhaps you missed the bit where men have been controlling women and using them as domestic servants for years? Perhaps on a forum where black people were discussing how saddened they were by ongoing racism you'd pop in to inform them they were being racist towards white people by saying that? At no point has it been said that ALL men are awful. We are talking about there being a mismatch between the amont of decent single men vs single women.

Yes, yes, and yes.

Relationships fail for all sorts of reasons, men in their 30s, 40s and 50s are not necessarily untouchables just because they're single. In my experience, and that of my friends, online dating sites have plenty of weirdos of both sexes.

It's all the fault of the Patriachy, innit?
It always is

Pretty much. When women are blamed for failing to meet a decent man, and women are also blamed for single men remaining single, I cant help but think that a few thousand years of Patriarchy may have a little something to do with that.

I found one in my late 30's. Completely self reliant, looks after both me, my kids and all his family, positive, kind, honest and successful. His marriage failed because he spoilt his wife so much she got bored and had an affair. More fool her, I treasure him.

I found one in my late 30's. Completely self reliant, looks after both me, my kids and all his family, positive, kind, honest and successful. His marriage failed because he spoilt his wife so much she got bored and had an affair. More fool her, I treasure him.

In my experience this isn't unusual. When I started seeing dh my friends all liked him but a couple of them said he wasn't their type as he was too nice . They seemed to prefer chasing after 'bad boys' tossers and trying to change them, which apparently injected a bit of extra 'excitement' into the relationship

not

Clearly everybody's tastes in partners varies. One woman's sweetheart is another's dickhead and so on. Some people may go for the man who treats her like a princess, others want a bit of a bastard.

If I may, my ideal woman (if there is such a thing) can be summed up in five words:

Smart, even-tempered, patient, kind.

Anyone care to do likewise for their ideal man or woman ?

See I think the 'women go for bad boys' thing is a bit of a myth. Certainly once you get to your 30's and have been treated badly in a couple of relationships.

I think there are a lot of men out there who seem lovely to their female (coupled up) friends, but once a woman gets into a relationship with them undesirable traits become evident. I have a male friend who often complains on Facebook about 'women don't want me because I'm a nice guy', but he can't see that he has a lot of baggage (including children from 2 previous failed relationships) and he's only early 30's.

I don't blame a woman in her 20's or early 30's not wanting to take that on and I don't think he would want to go out with a woman significantly older than himself.

Tobysmum being married to my abusive arsehole of an ex was a wonderful cure for craving the excitement of bastards. I can only hope I have fought my dd by example the difference in your life the choice makes.

Fought = taught!

Ive never been interested in the bad boy type, quiet and geeky all the way please!

Nah "bad boys" seem like spoiled little boys once you become a grown-up woman.
I think what sometimes puts women off about men who are dismissed as "too nice" isn't actually that they are "too nice", its maybe an aura of passiveness, or ineffectuality (is this a word?) that renders them not very sexually attractive (to some women anyway, I certainly know plenty of men like that who are married).

I like your list Vienna. I don't meet it, sadly, as I am far from patient!

Mine would be:
Kind, intelligent, funny, morally sound, likes sex.

I disagree with comments insinuating most single men 35+ must secretly have something very wrong with them/issues or come with lots of baggage.
As few others have said, to me knew was looking at slightly older 5-10 years- guys when I was 30 and looking to settle as I knew there'd be less game playing. I met DH - 10 yrs older and the only reason he was single was he was very fussy too and not prepared to compromise on his future wife, and quite a few of his mates were the same. Men dont feel the pressure we do with ticking body clocks so have the luxury of waiting and being super picky , doesn't mean they are all single because they dont want commitment, but only want commitment with the right woman.

I met DH - 10 yrs older and the only reason he was single was he was very fussy too and not prepared to compromise on his future wife,

Oh sweet Jeebus.
So...the only way to find a reasonable single man is to date one a decade older than you?
Its true in a sense, that men of 40 don't have to date women their own age, and in fact would prefer not to. Doesn't really help if you are a woman who would rather go out with a man your own age..

I disagree with comments insinuating most single men 35+ must secretly have something very wrong with them/issues or come with lots of baggage.

I agree. My dh had never had a girlfriend before we met. Some of my friends were very concerned as to why. Some men are just shy or not interested in casual relationships. You can't generalise.

I'm another never been into bad boys.

A friend of mine went on a second date recently. He came armed with a quiz to test her intelligence. I think first prize was either his willy or another date. She politely told him she'd give first prize to the runner up.. Have you ever- that's what's out there he looked like an old man to boot

ifnotnow you make it sound like an older guy is the worst possible scenario imaginable?! I definitely did not want to date guys my age, they were completely immature, insecure, inexperienced, had no direction and were years away from settling down.
My DH had his career sorted, owned his own property, was secure and confident in himself and knew he was ready to settle down pretty quickly (if/when right woman turned up). He is also incredibly sporty (as are so many men in 40s even 50s nowadays) and far healthier than me, so I have no fears about being alone for a decade later in life, just because he happens to be older than me.

Here's my list, please tell me if my list is unreasonable

• Doesn't own an xbox/playstation

-Doesn't smoke/do drugs

• Isn't obsessed with getting pissed at the weekends with the lads

-Isn't afraid of commitment and wants to settle down

• Doesn't live with parents
• Isn't obsessed with the gym but equally not obese
• Somewhat intelligent
• kind, understanding

-not a tightarse

• doesn't see women as objects
• doesn't expect me to be his mother and clean up after him

-average looks

I don't care where he works, how much money he has or anything else.

FlowersAndShit I certainly wouldn't settle for anything less than you've listed.

Flowers. I am a little overweight but otherwise I tick all your boxes. A most reasonable list .

FlowersAndShit - seems reasonable. Why no Xbox/PlayStation, out of curiosity.

I totally have an Xbox

there are some good ones out there OP. Don't despair. I'm trying not to. And I've been single getting on for 8 years now, save the odd fling.. My brother (45) is dating at the moment and speaks of all the loony, oddball women he's encountering.

Yes scattermere a lot of men in their 40s have it all sorted. And they want to marry 30 year olds. Which is a problem for me, as I can barely see 30 in my rearview mirror..
Imagine if the received wisdom was this:
" men over 35 can't really expect to marry a woman the same age, as women can afford to be super picky, and generally prefer to marry men 5-10 years younger than them. What older men should do is look for someone a decade or so older than they are. "

I don't think men would feel too chuffed about that either really.

I forgot another important one - must want children