To think there aren't enough decent men to go round?

[elementofsurprise]

I am sick of men - haven't had a realtionship for ages, so it's not caused by any particular one, just a general observation of the crap specimens the patriarchy has produced.

Was hit on yet again last night by a man who seemed perfectly nice and intelligent and polite to start with but got weirdly pressuring and controlling when I tried to politely decline. Is it so impossible for men to actually be pleasant and get to know someone? Must they always think with their dicks? (Wasn't out partying btw!)

And the ones that appear to be pleasant functional human beings turn into childish selfish assholes after a while - is there a way to avoid this? Because being friends for months/years first (so you think you know them) just seems to lead to a situation which is a prolonged 'chase' for them and they don't want you once they have you... My last boyfriend treats his female friends far, far better than he treated me.

I am 30 and worried I will never have a partner, because the cliche appears to be true - "all the good ones are taken"! And there seems to be more nice, normal, considerate etc etc women around than men. Sadly I am coming to the conclusion that this isn't just perception, but due to societal expctations, meaning men are just more likely to be overgrown children/inconsiderate/selfish/poor lifestyle/alcholic/poor hygeine/other massive red flag etc.

Sigh.

1) Children. Not a deal breaker but definitely not if it meant we couldn't afford to have our own children. Is that so weird?

No, but cutting off a large pool of potential partners.

2)Divorced - Potentially someone who takes marriage lightly, or can't settle, or who is secretly abusive or something. All depends on case by case though

Or has been cheated on etc etc.

That was my point laguna, that she was cutting out large chunks of people without even looking at them
(Im sure there were more points on the list too, but i cant remember them!)

Unfortunately, I do chat guys up first, I often send messages first on OLD, and I work at a software company - I clearly have just never worked at the right ones though because I've always been surrounded by married men!

There just doesnt seem to be a market for geeky women who also dont look like supermodels and are under 30.

See, I really wouldn't rule out men with children. One of the best men I know is my friends ex (amicable split), who took 50% custody of their dc.
He and his partner have had another child, and he's a great dad and a proper grown up. I should have snapped him up!
I'm actually looking for a man with children, but I keep meeting men who don't have any, and will probably want them, which ain't gonna happen with me.
I do draw the line at men online who go on about how much they love their kids though...

If you meet a man at 35 who is divorced, he could well have been married for 15 years.
Oh that reminds me, widower was on the list too.

I am not sure OP, the stereotypical cat lady being very needy and constantly nagging because the guy is not good enough is also a form of abuse I think. I agree though that the difference in the way we express our insatisfactions or even lash out is probably down to socializing boys and girls differently.

to all those saying my husband is sharing caring considerate please tell me how much of the domestics you do and how much you do and be honest about it, because I'm very sceptical. i think most women are domestic servants.

Last night as a sample... I cooked while DH entertained DD. He washed up, cleaned the kitchen and put out the recycling and compost, I bathed DD. He did bedtime. He does 90% of the night wakings now she's older (nightmares). I did 100% of them when smaller (BFing). I do laundry and cooking. He does cleaning and financial organizing. I do most of the DD stuff, he does most of the gardening. I work PT, he works FT.

And, he's hot.

I know I'm very lucky because about 75% of my friends are currently divorcing or miserable. And the men are to blame in most cases.

I wonder if it because when you are at school all the girls only seem to want the bad boys and the fellas think this is how they need to continue to behave in adulthood?

I really don't know the answer.

I got married at 19. Everyone thought is it was a terrible idea. 10 years later, I'm thinking it was the best decision I ever made. I'd advise my daughter (and son) to be open to getting married young if you meet the right person. It hasn't hampered either of our education (both have postgrads) or careers. I admit to very shamefully, feeling a bit smug from time to time. I appreciate this isn't an option for everyone, but the advice is a bit crazy. It goes from "you're too young, you're too young" instantly to "oh my goodness you're too old". It's daft.

My husband is also more domestic than I am and is a very hands on dad, including the hard bits like bath time and explosive nappies and washing up. He works full time but we are always a priority.

There no such thing as the perfect partner, it about finding someone who's faults you can live with.

I run a business, I work daily with about 20 to 45 men, only about four of which are total twonks , (and I'm working on them) , I train in a sport which I am surrounded by men, about 2% are twonks (I'm working on them)

I know lots of single men I would happily go out with all are lovely, I don't know any that use dating sites, most are sensitive , and feel scared of what they are expected to be, rather than be loved for who they are.

When I met DH , He surround by female friends who fancied him, but thought him a non goer as he was a full time carer for a mother with server MH issues, very poor and struggling student.

It's silly to generalise about people using gender and puts up barriers to forming friendships, and all good relationships start with good friendships.

I'm with you, OP. The older I get the more aware I am of the total fuckwittery of most men I come into contact with - married and single.

I did manage to find one of the good 'uns early on and pursued him till he caved, but if - heaven forbid - anything happened to him, I'd switch to women, seriously. I couldn't face trying to find another decent one.

there just seems to be more shit men than shit women! So there's not enough decent men to go round!

I bet the single men are saying the same about Women

Mrsterrypratchett stop you're making me jealous and I rarely get jealous of others, specially since you said he helps with domestics and he's hot! Very lucky, he's lucky to have you too :)

Beyondtells my husband was raised by his dad also, his mum had mental health issues they decided better if she was taken care of in her home country because back then the care facilities in the uk weren't great, 80s? When he was a young kid his dad died, so he was raised by family then family friends passed around, pretty sad really. He used to help a lot in the first few years, I duno maybe it's my fault?

I agree with you op, I cannot think of a single man I have ever known that I would want my son to turn out like, family included.

I can honestly say my dp does easily half the domestics . He cooks ( it relaxes him immediate keeper) he will shop or we go together does the diy, I do most of the washing and dishwasher stuff but he will do it if he's there it's honestly like having a woman in the house domestically speaking and the opposite of my exh . He's just wonderful. And I met him on Match. My friend also met her husband on match and used to say it's just a numbers game you do have to wade through the shit but they are absolutely out there.

I don't know. See, I was in a very serious relationship at 19. I could have married him. He's a great guy, still a close friend.
But the thing about getting married young, is that you don't get to shag loads of other men all through your twenties. And quite a lot of your 30s..
That, to me, would put me off. I know, I know, you can't have your cake and eat it. I'm paying for all the fun now, be assured.

As far as the "perfect person" goes though, I don't honestly think women are holding out for perfection. Just reasonable intelligence, hygiene, grown-upness ( having a job, knowing how to cook etc), not being a woman hating cunt, that sort of thing.

IfNotNowThenWhenever - it's quality not quantity! Made me laugh.

Ok , I'll give you a case study of a male single friend of mine:

44, very well paid job, own flat in London, car, loves his mum, loves kids.
He also seems to have no grasp on self-care. Works far too long hours and is always stressed. Lives in a tip. Smokes incessantly, drinks far too much. Expresses his political opinions in the loud, boorish way that comes to men in their late 30s, which is when their views solidify into incontrovertible fact.

I mean, he's a nice guy, inside, a good egg. He could be a good husband.
But the women he does go out with, who are willing to take him on, he never falls in love with because..well, who knows.
He spends a lot of time thinking about girlfriends past, ones he shouldn't have let go. There's always something not quite right with the real women he meets.
He wants a romantic fantasy, a dream girl, not a 40 something woman.

Oh I don't know primary I'd say it's six and two threes..

Yanbu. Obviously it's just an anecdote, but I know plenty of lovely men....who have all settled down and been married by age 35 at the maximum. Usually to someone they've known for ages.

I think women have been done over a bit. If you get married young, you are a 1950s throwback who is giving up on a career, etc etc. So many women wait. Then all of a sudden the switch flicks, they are in their late 30s, and people think they are a corporate bitch with shrivelled ovaries. Meanwhile, men the same age are settling down with women 10 years younger, and have years of fertility left.

Sounds like I might have to get my 30yr old son into OLD.

Ticks all the boxes above!

I might let him know going by MN criteria he is a bit of a catch. How to broach the subject.......

So I married a man who I knew wasn't perfect but then neither am I perfect. My goal has always been to marry before having children (don't mind what others do but this was something important to me). DH is danish and I loved the fact that he had table manners, tried his best and was able to keep his own place. I didn't like that he didn't have a savings account and told him that he needed to start saving, even if its $1 a month, if he wanted to be in a relationship with me.

A lot of people here on MN have said I am hard work when it comes to my relationship with DH. Well yes I am hard work but so is my DH. We will be married 8 years and this month it was our 10 year anniversary of us getting engaged. We moved in together April 1st after our engagement.

You don't just meet the perfect man and men don't meet the perfect woman. You both have to be willing to adapt and respect each enough to listen to each other. Both DH and I have changed but I like to think it's just us growing together.

As for housework, you start as you mean to go on. When we first moved in together I made him do his fair share. Nothing has changed and we had a wobble in our marriage when our 1st was born and he didn't think he had to do anything. Well that's changed now. I'm due to go in to have baby#3. He has called the cleaner I use when he is travelling and has sorted food out for the week I am in hospital as well as the week after.

Also generally speaking you don't find good men in bars. Those quiet, a little bit quirky guys are normally fab. They are passed over so often.

Hmm. I will say again..I really, really don't think older women are looking for a perfect man want2be
In fact, your rule of "must have savings account" ..that's way more prescriptive and picky than anything I or any of my single friends would demand.
And, no, you don't find good 40 year old men in bars. But I don't think most 40 year old women are going to bars! ( save the occasional after work drink with colleagues or whatever )
And that quiet, quirky guy you wouldn't fuck, but is surely ok for a desperate older lass? He's a porn addict with a mother fixation.
I honestly don't think happily married women want to believe those of us in the trenches. I don't know why.
And I know I'm being facetious and I sound bitter. There's a reason for that!