To think there aren't enough decent men to go round?

[elementofsurprise]

I am sick of men - haven't had a realtionship for ages, so it's not caused by any particular one, just a general observation of the crap specimens the patriarchy has produced.

Was hit on yet again last night by a man who seemed perfectly nice and intelligent and polite to start with but got weirdly pressuring and controlling when I tried to politely decline. Is it so impossible for men to actually be pleasant and get to know someone? Must they always think with their dicks? (Wasn't out partying btw!)

And the ones that appear to be pleasant functional human beings turn into childish selfish assholes after a while - is there a way to avoid this? Because being friends for months/years first (so you think you know them) just seems to lead to a situation which is a prolonged 'chase' for them and they don't want you once they have you... My last boyfriend treats his female friends far, far better than he treated me.

I am 30 and worried I will never have a partner, because the cliche appears to be true - "all the good ones are taken"! And there seems to be more nice, normal, considerate etc etc women around than men. Sadly I am coming to the conclusion that this isn't just perception, but due to societal expctations, meaning men are just more likely to be overgrown children/inconsiderate/selfish/poor lifestyle/alcholic/poor hygeine/other massive red flag etc.

Sigh.

Kaz- Dh honestly does at least 50% domestic stuff. He cooks, cleans and does all child related stuff equally to me. We both work, but generally one works from home and one out 50/50. So whoever is at home balances childcare/ working from home/ cooking and cleaning. Then swap. We have a cleaner who does the bulk of cleaning for both of us though.

you are very fortunate art very blessed. i don't know where the husband i married went, he used to help in the first few years of our marriage, now hes quite happy to do nothing in the house,and i have raised it kindly many times, evne recently.

I'm just bitter, resigned myself to the fact most men are like this except a few good uns.

No one said all men are shit or that women are never shit.
I know more self entitled cock lodgers and knob head men than I do nice ones.

What happens if you just don't do it all? I would be sitting down again tbh and explain he is one out of a 6 person household. Two parents, why should you do it all? He should be cooking half the meals ( batch cooking if needed time wise), and helping with all domestic stuff and child related. If he can't do his 50% worth himself he needs to be looking for paid help. If can't afford he simply should be stepping up.
Even if he works full time in the days, surely he has some whole days off and evening or whatever. He could do a lot in that time

All of you with great decent men. Well to be honest they are not on the market are they nor are you likely to be getting rid any time soon.

I think as you get older the decent ones (male and female) are taken and it is more of the ones that no one wants that are left.

I also think if women weren't still expected to a degree to put up with crap and 'work' on arse holes then they would have to buck up their ideas and become decent humans to earn and keep a partner.

Absolutely true, I've got one of the -mostly- good ones (smug)

I've had a cornucopia of knobs (the figurative kind!) though.

art ive been trying just yesterday i left it to him to clear table since he gets in last with the 2 eldest kids. i feed 2 little ones and 2 elders tidy up sit then they come in eat dinner leave it all on table for me.

Well i thought id see what he does, instead he came to the bedroom to sit on his gadget, switched off kitchen light. i asked politely if the kitchen was tidy, he said no didn't seem to realise there was a problem and carried on.

i didn't want an argument, if i asked him to do it right then i know he'd go all moody on me. i did raise it just last week about helping just one day in the wknd to make things fair and easier but he claimed hes never home, which honestly isn't true.

He is home most days he's still setting up a business, he does half day and he's home. then hes in and out doing kids pick up and drop offs, i know this isn't easy. He is home more than he would be if he was doing 9-5 still i ask nothing i just want him to load dishwasher at night wipe tables after himself? It's too much apparently.

this is life for me I've resigned myself to it, i don't think i can divorce over this, but who knows maybe in a few years i will throw in the towel, because it can take it's toll, some women do divorce over these issues, because it just builds up resentment

For me, it isn't just the domestic stuff, I'm now 48, so there won't be any children etc.

It's the general attitude towards woman and their 'place/role' in society. It seems that it too much to ask for them not to have double standards when it comes to sexual behaviour etc.

Then of course, is the general bigoted attitudes and being upto with knowing why certain language isn't used snymore etc. This is a massive problem in some men over 50, who haven't been able to command their place, the way the previous generation of white heterosexual men did.

I lose respect for people who may not have the opinion of the person whose telling a story, but wouldn't dream of challenging them, especially when it's takes about how much contempt their friends hold the women they are having sex with, branding them as 'slags' etc, or the tales of 'Thai' type holiday, the ones that believe coercion shouldn't matter.

It's more difficult as you get older, because you realise a lot more what's what etc.

I think invariably given age etc, the 'eligible' men who are interested in LTRs are likely to have been partnered up already by their 30's. Leaving the rest. That quirky dysfunctional band of aging single men and disgruntled divorcees.

Yep, this. I genuinely regret not realising at the time that when I was at university, I should have been husband-shopping. Now I'm in my 30s and that "It's been fun but I'm ready to settle down now" switch has clicked for me, I'm surrounded by married people who all met their partner at uni. My main hope at this point is to meet someone nice in that narrow window between divorce and when one of their single female friends snaps them up.

I totally agree with what magoria said ^^
After a certain point, around 35, a single word an IS expected to find a doer upper, and is often chastised by married folk if she is not willing to accept a man who most of them would have considered pretty undateable themselves.

I also take great issue with comments like this "I really want to debunk the myth that all men are bastards. They simply aren't. If you feel that all the men you meet are, it's because you are unconsciously sending out vibes to these men. They can spot a target a mile off."
Sorry, but that's really victim-blamey.
I hear it a lot "you must attract bastards". Sure, there are a minority of women who always go after shit heads (although the ones I know are always in a relationship, never single) but generally, women over 35 are just looking for someone normal.
That's it really. Most of us have much less stringent standards than we did in our shallow 20s.
I have several single 40 ish friends, fabulous women (ok, not subservient types by any stretch, but fun, independent, funny) and they meet guys in various ways. None of them are holding out for a wealthy man, they just expect him to have a job.
Tall? Well, I'm dating a man only an inch taller than me at the moment. I wouldn't have done that at 28.

I really don't think blaming women for the fact that most men in their 30s and 40s who are single seem to be a mixture of just eternal bachelor ( never gonna settle down with you because they have been single so long only Ms Perfection will do and she is 10 years younger than you are).
There are the ones you date a few times, seem normal and sweet, but soon the mask slips and the selfish little boy/misogynist /angry man emerges.
I date men who I think are wildly different types. My only criteria is a certain level of wit, and a kind an empathetic nature. Kind to children and animals, that sort of thing. I have dated a Tory ffs (again, my 20 something self cries)

I like myself. I think I'm ok, not bad looking, I have self worth. I certainly do not "give out vibes" that say "please give me the run around and treat me like shite"
I have never pressured a man for commitment, texted a lot, been needy or demanding (even my ex boyfriend said this).
In fact it's always the men who are dead keen at first, and me being more circumspect.
And yet, if either of the men I am dating at the moment turn out to be keepers (and I am desperately trying to keep an open mind) I will eat my hat. On You Tube.

And as to all the married women who always pipe up to say how fab their man is, maybe he is. I hope he is. But in RL, I would say I know maybe 5 happy marriages. I would have said 6, but then he up and ran off with another woman, so..

There are eligible people of both genders and all sexual inclinations in their 30s and 40s. It's just perhaps that they tend to be less, shall we say, "visible". And either because of shyness, or being not very tall, or not that well-off, or not in a position to buy a house yet, or being by necessity in a boring job, or having a haircut which was last fashionable in 1994, they tend either to be overlooked as potential dates. Or their own lack of confidence means they don't put themselves forward, or don't know how to.

I think i'll just end up using a sperm donor to have children.

Kataryzna, dh does i'd say 80% of the housework, the only thing i do is wash clothes. He does pretty much every morning school run, and most of the afternoon school runs. He did a lot of it before i was ill too.
He was brought up by a single dad, i think that makes a difference?

Now I'm in my 30s and that "It's been fun but I'm ready to settle down now" switch has clicked for me, I'm surrounded by married people who all met their partner at uni

This was me too, did a lot of online dating didn't really go anywhere and then just ended up kinda meeting DP as we kept seeming to come across each other, was mid thirties when married. I was very shy though twenties, would never have chatted anyone up, and I know quite a few guys who were the same.

We have a toddler, I do all the finances, sort DS out in morning, change and feed, evening change feed, ready for bed etc. Weekend DP works so bung some washing in/put out, bins etc Its not difficult.

If you want non patriachal guy then maybe tear the rule book and go chat someone up? as the majority of guys who are trying to chat you up will be the types you trying to avoid.

And either because of shyness, or being not very tall, or not that well-off, or not in a position to buy a house yet, or being by necessity in a boring job, or having a haircut which was last fashionable in 1994, they tend either to be overlooked as potential dates.
See, that's just it. I don't think those people are overlooked as potential dates. Trust me, you get to 39 and you'll clutch at fucking straws in the hope that the frog has handsome prince potential.
The thing I have realised though is that the short, bald, shy, needy, boring of jobbed are just as bad as the good looking ones in the end. And can often be real woman haters actually.
Men who have always been able to get laid won't settle down after 35, but they tend to at least be quite laid back, accepting of female sexuality have female friends etc.
So, really, if I'm going to date a twat, he may as well have all his own teeth.

to all those saying my husband is sharing caring considerate please tell me how much of the domestics you do and how much you do and be honest about it, because I'm very sceptical. i think most women are domestic servants.

My dh is brilliant. When I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome a few years ago he literally did everything as well as a full time job. I'm miles better now (and we have a cleaver) but we split pretty evenly. Not all women are domestic servants. I hope you can improve the chores split in your relationship.

Cleaver?! We have a cleaner..,

I chat men up frequently, well, I flirt a lot (just for practice)
I have asked out 2 of the previous 3 boyfriends. In fact, British men are so bad at making the first move, I doubt I know a single woman who has spent her dating years hanging about waiting to be chatted up! I don't know why men seem to believe this to be the dynamic, it just isn't.

I think the problem really is that even the decent men of 35 want to meet women of 30, men of 40 want to meet someone no older than 34...men of 50 want to meet someone who is 28
So if you're a single woman of 40, get used to the idea that you're probably going to stay that way.

VoyageOfDad I think another thing is that once you get to 'a certain' age you start to get a bit entrenched in your habits and less willing to compromise.

Yes, I'm no longer willing to do all the housework and let the man make every decision, as well as generally being expected to accommodate everything he says and does whilst having no personality of my own. How uncompromising of me!

Bellasima - I've always had a tendency to go for older men due to the apparent immaturity of my male peers (well, the single ones - the others get snapped up! ), and it hasnt really helped. If anything they are more objectifying too (not looking at women their own age). And still immature, though hiding it better.

Beyond - I'm intrigued by your comment: i used to know a woman who (in her late thirties) wouldnt date a man if he
- had children
- was divorced
- had been in the army
- still lived with his parents
Yet then wondered why all the men she dated didnt turn out to be keepers.

Ok... 1) Children. Not a deal breaker but definitely not if it meant we couldn't afford to have our own children. Is that so weird?

2) Divorced - Potentially someone who takes marriage lightly, or can't settle, or who is secretly abusive or something. All depends on case by case though!

3) Army - I just can't see myself getting on with someone who'd voluntarily signed up to the military, our beleifs and values would just be too different.

4) Still lived with his parents. Seriously? Someone who, barring looking after a disabled parent, or being disabled themsleves, had never left home? I just couldn't cope with the lack of ambition and being under the parent's influence. Not to mention not knowing how to run a household, cook, clean, manage bills etc (and late 30's living with parents - how have they not saved up enough to buy a property yet?!) I left home at 18 so maybe feel more strongly about this than usual... if they are London based with ludicrous house prices I'd feel slightly less repulsed.

Feel weird now. Are my standards too high? But then I'm not online dating or anything where I screen men out like this, so it's possible I could meet someone in the above catergories!

IfNotNow I have dated a Tory ffs

Oh now come on! We must keep some standards!

The thing I have realised though is that the short, bald, shy, needy, boring of jobbed are just as bad as the good looking ones in the end. And can often be real woman haters actually ... So, really, if I'm going to date a twat, he may as well have all his own teeth.

Your posts seem spot on and are making me giggle! Perhaps it is our deranged sense of reality humour that is keeping them at bay, eh?

TBH I'm in a shitty life position so I can see I get catergorised in a certain way and unwanted by men. My OP was more of a general observation about single men vs single women my age and older.

It is not really that you are being reasonable here, but thinking like this is not going to do any good.

I am about the same age as you are and have been single for a while. I completely agree that there seem to be a lot of men around with narcissistic personalities in our age group. That and the trendy YOLO BS mentality which is not helping at all.

BUT I refuse to believe we are all doomed to die alone and get eaten by the cat just because we missed the early 20s/uni window of opportunity to pin down a good man. Truth is there are a lot of single men around and while some of them are complete twats, there are also good ones.

If you think you are only meeting the twats, you should cast the net wider, and actively date. I was very surprised to discover that the overall quality of the men I was meeting really increased when I started OLD IRL I only get the twats, which is probably because I realized there was a lot of guys around a and I carefully chose who I wanted to date. As a result out of 10 guys, only one was a twat in disguise, the rest were good ones, I just did not connect with them.

Ditch the cat and get out there OP, that is the only way to find the good ones.

Soz for ranting all over your thread Op

Also... the "crazy cat ladies" might be odd but not borderline/actually abusive like the men. Women with "issues" tend to be quite self-aware and need bit of loving kindness whilst their male equivalents are busy taking it out on women others, or drinking heavily or whatnot. I really think this is a socialisation thing.

to all those saying my husband is sharing caring considerate please tell me how much of the domestics you do and how much you do and be honest about it, because I'm very sceptical. i think most women are domestic servants.

I work full time and cook all meals because Im a good cook. I wash my own clothes. I load and unload the dishwasher after I cook. I keep the kitchen work surfaces clean. I do most of the food shopping and put the food away. Thats about it really.

My DH washes, dries and irons our boys clothes and makes sure their uniforms are ready. He does all the cleaning and hoovering, emptying bins etc. Putting the bins out. All the DIY and gardening. Cleans out the fish tanks and rabbit hutches. Loads and unloads the dishwasher more than me. Bleaches the loo. Changes the bed sheets and puts on new ones. Hes a childminder so by the nature of that does more childcare for our youngest than me.

Im no "domestic servant" so that's a bit of a gross generalisation. My relationships is by no means perfect - because we arent perfect. I dont think any relationship is. We have our ups and downs, petty disagreements but overall we are happy, hes my best friend and I love my family.

Ooh, ooh! I have dated two who lived with their parents!!
One had lived away from home, but moved back in "temporarily" for help with babysitting (he had a son) ,he other was a musician who had broke up with his girlfriend, also home "temporarily " 2 years