AIBU and expecting too much

[Cutecat78]

I know step parents get flamed on here - I love my DSDs but have just had quite a "trying" weekend with them. I have three DC of my own who are in their teens and only one DD so I genuinely want to know if my DSDs are perhaps a bit immature (which I am really struggling with tbh as it means I spend the whole weekend feeling like an evil bitch telling them off and then go back to my FTJ on a Monday feeling totally stressed) and what do I do to maybe help them improve their behaviour a bit when with us

Have my DSDs every other weekend - we have 5 kids here.

DSDs just do not seem to be growing up since I met them 7 yrs ago. They are 11 and 9.

11 yr old wets the bed, walking round supermarket pulling down each other's trousers and knickers (11 yr old has hit puberty - I felt a bit mortified), spitting in each other's faces while unsupervised this afternoon, while trying to bake cakes with them they squabble over number of "stirs" and who cracks which egg, completely incapable of amusing themselves without us entertaining them or watching TV, talking to each other in "goo goo gaga" language and pretending to be babies, every single time they go to the loo not flushing, leaving a trail of bog roll and not washing hands and needing DH to sort out their clothes to wear - these are just a few examples - when they are playing together it just reminds me of the tension I felt when mine were toddlers - they cannot be trusted to be left in a room as they play fight and rip up paper (letters etc) or knock into things and break stuff or will pick up a load of clean laundry and throw it round the room.

Am I just stressed and tired and out of touch or are these behaviours a bit childish for these ages - and what do I do? OH struggles to put in any consequences as he says "they are only here for 4 days a month" yet expects me to be stringent as with my DC - another thread TBH. They often totally ignore me when I nicely ask them to stop a behaviour. My DC do not do this to me they respect me.

I know as a step mum it's trying sometimes but this feels so stressful every other weekend.

And again, what's most functionally relevant here is the behavioural indicators of distress. Nits and wet beds and being alone in a house while parents head off to the pub can all happen and a child can be reasonably well-adjusted (even if this is not ideal and they are likely to be coping rather than thriving). However, these factors combined with behaviours suggestive of distress are concerning and need closer monitoring than a stepparent two hundred miles away who sees them every once in a while and a bit of pastoral support at school.

The op's husband discussed his concerns with the school and the op discussed here with a safeguarding team.

They have reported.

They are only aware of the behaviour at their house 4 times a month.

Do you reckon it might be possible that seen as at least one of the children is already having additional pastoral support in school and a safeguarding team has already advised on the situation and it's been discussed with the school, that perhaps the situations in both houses are different and a heafty dose of animosity and ramping up for impact is occuring?

And that during the course of this thread the op had had a chance to be a bit less ranty and a bit more rational about the actual situation

I think, as I said above, that's a professional's response, Needsasock.. the bases are probably "covered" in that respect, yes. Yet I would see you need to document on an ongoing basis - every time you have to denit, every time you know the children are left alone with a parent who is gone to the pub. It's the pattern vs "the report".

And still.. I know even writing it that even that's rarely enough to prevent situations from becoming really quite serious where neglect co-exists with behaviours like this and the situation remains unchecked over a period of time.

Between social care and CAMHS resource issues, public services are directed towards doing the best for the most, but the vast body of research literature would suggest that unless this type of situation is resolved effectively there will be quite significant negative effects in the long-term.

And there's an absolutely yawning gulf of difference between what is legally "okay" in terms of intervention from a safeguarding team and what will lead to best outcomes for children who are experiencing neglect and behaving as though they are distressed. It's easy to lose sight of it when you're professionally faced with the Daniel Pelka type cases, but we don't have a huge mental health crisis in the nation for nothing... and there is a huge fall-out likely if these girls know that their father could have acted to care better for them and doesn't, or can't. That's the crux of it from my point of view. So if it were me I would want to do more, to try to drive to a better resolution.. but I appreciate everyone doesn't view it like that.

Do you think that there aren't other professionals lurking around on mumsnet?

It might just be the reason why some posters are not happy to instantly yell sexual abuse or neglect in these situations.

Or accuse parents and step parents of doing nothing.

Needs, don't tell me, tell the children's mother.

It's worth, surely, suggesting to the OP things that are worth considering as making things worse. (Or are likely to impact on her family.)

The OP has said in previous posts that the eldest girl was on tablets for a year which didn't seem to have worked in that time, and her father was getting the prescriptions for her as that wasn't being done by the mother. The family moved and did not get follow up referral. OP says they are currently waiting for a referral that she and the girl's father have instigated to see another specialist. Seeing a specialist and having treatment are two separate processes.

None of us know the mother and nine of us know if the bed wetting continues at the childs main home.

'It would not fit the criteria for prosecution unless the children being unsupervised left them at risk.'

I agree but that the whole point of a warfare check so somebody can assess. If the children appear younger than their years, as stated in the op, it raises concerns even more.

I'm fairly sure there have been a lot of professionals on this thread who know that the "minimum threshold" for referral doesn't relate to sexual abuse and that, on the basis of what's shared here, if those criteria aren't currently being met in a specific geographical area, that's no cause for relief.

My point is as a professional (and one who walked away from the UK system), I saw so many terrible decisions that effectively consigned very young children to lifetime sentences of mental distress that I wouldn't be adopting the "professional" bare minimum, arse covering response to it if it was happening in my home. Ultimately OP is going to have to live with the fall out of this in her family, one way or the other, or walk away from this relationship - so what's in her best interests is to minimise the damage if there is (as she says) attachment issues and neglect.

Needs but you'd think the kids father would have discussed with their mother whether it does continue at home, wouldn't you? I mean, if it was known that it didn't happen at their house then the op would strictly be going down the line of 'they have problems but only when they visit us' . Wouldn't she?

And if the father hasn't even bothered to discuss it then...

How much do you love DH?
Because he doesn't seem to be noticing that his kids are in a pretty sad situation, that sounds like intervention is pretty urgent, and you seem to be the only one caring.
IF he can't look after them, how can he look after you and your children in the future?
I think you need a pretty serious conversation with him.
He needs to step up and maybe take custody, even if it means giving up a job he loves.
Also, our school has a Parent Support Officer if you want to talk, paid for by Sure Start I think. If you don't want to go to Social Services, then that might be a good place to start.
I can only wish you all of you luck xx

No one has said these girls are being sexually abused. What people have said is the behaviour displayed can be an indicator of sexual abuse. What people are getting cranked up at is the op's complete disregard of that. No one has said that the responsibility for these girls is solely the op's, what they have said is that as someone who works in a safe guarding environment, it is unbelievable she is so willing to just brush aside everything that has been said here because 'she knows them [the girls]'. As many have now pointed out, anyone with the slightest idea of sexual abuse in children would know that you cannot 100% rule it out, just because you know them.

Also 4 days a month? Surely that's the bare minimum. The starting point here has to be he starts spending a lot more time with them.

she hasn't done nothing or just brushed off concerns.

She is quite clear that she knows that it not the case. But she does not want to say why.

for all we know what that means is, well actually due to the level of hostility and wish to not bring anything to mums attention we have already raised that as an issue with the appropreate authorities previously

Or it could mean, we have already had this medically looked into.

Or someone else has raised this previously.

or it could mean (as it would in one family that pops into my head) mum has already accused dad of this previously so medical social and police professionals have already been down that road just with a different perp in mind.

What we do know is she has spoken to an appropriate person in the team she works in and dad has spoken to the school.

The father is banned from driving? Why would that be?

Cutecat

You can ignore whatever has been said on this thread.

But you cannot ignore your intuition.
Your OH tries to ignore the problem by brushing it off as 4-days-a-month. But you know it's about dsd' whole life. You shared your concerns here to see if they are valid and the response is overwhelmingly - yes, your internal alarms bells are ringing for a reason.

Should you do anything on top of what you do? You know the answer. You do it to be true to yourself, to be an example for your dc, and to create a stable environment for your family.

Helping DSDs does not mean you have to sacrifice your life and the life of your DCs. The starting points are much much easier.

1. Find a way to convince OH there's a real, serious problem that he cannot ignore. His DDs are being neglected and need urgent help.

1. Once he gets the full picture he should visit their school's welfare officer and GP and show them the full picture.

That's it for now.

If you find it difficult to deal with OH's exW (treading on eggshells), can you imagine how the girls feel with their mother every day?

I agree with fusionconfusion re "But if nothing is being reported and logged there's never going to be a case built, is there?"

Also very good points from niceday and curlywurly4.

Anyone can report suspected neglect or suspected abuse. They can do so anonymously.

I am so sorry for your experiences WeveGotAHomelessLove and hope you have found some peace and justice in the last few years. and

NeedsAsockamnesty re "Secondly if a 11 and 9 year old are being left alone while their sole carer is in the pub, then it's standard procedure to call the police to conduct a welfare check. Parents have been arrested and prosecuted for this, it comes up time and again in child protection conferences."

And

"It would not fit the criteria for prosecution unless the children being unsupervised left them at risk no matter the reason why they are alone."

The Op said in her opening post "they cannot be trusted to be left in a room as they play fight and rip up paper (letters etc) or knock into things and break stuff or will pick up a load of clean laundry and throw it round the room."

I know what she describes is not exactly dangerous behaviour but I also feel that a nine year old and an 11 year old might not be safe to be left.
-What if they are hungry and start a fire trying to cook something?
-What if the play fighting turns into real fighting?
-What if the knocking into stuff results in an injury?

These are not two regular 9 and 11 year olds, they are two children who the OP said "DSDs just do not seem to be growing up since I met them 7 yrs ago." Does that really mean they are somewhat like a two year old and a four year old! I hate to sound so alarmist but being left alone unsupervised (potentially for long periods of time) can be very frightening for children.

I am not sure the aim needs to be to successfully prosecute the children's birth mum, more to make her address her behaviour.

Re It would be unusual for something like this where a neighbour has agreed to be contactable (and possibly also checking) and the parent is not gone for several hours to get that far. Did the OP say that there was a neighbour on alert to look out for the girls? (Genuine question).

Needs re "It might just be the reason why some posters are not happy to instantly yell sexual abuse or neglect in these situations." The OP has said herself she thinks there is neglect. And she is the only person here who actually knows the girls! Everyone else is just responding to what the OP has written.

I am not sure any person here has said that there is definitely sexual abuse, just there might be. The other factor, of course, is there may have been sexual or other abuse in the past, and this is the fallout from that behaviour. So it may not be ongoing but was there in the past, maybe. But even if there is no sexual abuse (and I hope to God there is not, of course) there is neglect.

The OP herself has said she is worried the older child will be 'eaten alive' once she reaches high school later this year.

My own dd goes to high school later this year. The idea that I would have that fear but be unable to alter anything, is awful.

But I really do not think the OP is powerless as anyone can report 'suspected' neglect anonymously.

Not everyone has jumped on the OP or accused her doing nothing.

where is poster with the phone she keeps for mn
can she please contact the poster get details and ring ss .
thank you

^where is poster with the phone she keeps for mn
can she please contact the poster get details and ring ss .
thank you^

Sorted. We can all go home now.

greyhound

She did say a neighbour was contactable obviously we don't know exactly what that means, for many people that could mean they contact in an emergency or that combined with she checks every so often

All of those things mentioned as behaviour concerns could well be only things that occur in the op's house, they could be compleatly different at home and at school. None of them are the sort of things that are likely to constitue additional risk of the actionable level.

Put it this way,is it likely given this op's opinion on the mother (she pops up regularly and does not hide it) that the mother would have two children of that age who present with toddler level behaviour outside of the op's house in other settings as well as home and the mum wouldn't be obtaining DLA for them? Given what the op describes they would be eligible and it (if mum was so minded) it would give her a ready made excuse.for her parenting.

If they did genuinely present like toddlers how likely is it that nobody else would have noticed this?

Or is it more likely that their behaviour is different outside the op's where it sounds like they have a SM who finds them annoying and tiresome a dad who is disengaged and if I recall correctly from a previous thread potentially has a drink problem resulting in the loss of his license combined with a large amount of hostility and differing standards. And the op just wanted a winge about the SC and hammed it up a fair bit after all she does come across as fairly negative.

Yes children do slip through the net BUT it's rarely children who exhibit these types of behaviours (what's described are quite in your face things).

Going from things the op has previously said I think she works in a MASH or simerler why did her manager not priority assess after all they know the op and they know the situation.

Has there ever been any question of my sons or my OH sexually abusing my DSDs?

No there has not.

Do I have an issue with their mum?

No I do not we are actually friends and supportive towards each other.

Is my OH a dick?

No he is not - Otherwise I wouldn't be with him.

Does my OH have a drink problem?

No he certainly does not.

Do I work in the MASH?

No I do not.

HTH

Now that's a shame, because working for a MASH would have been the one legitimate reason for accepting your managers decision on the matter,

Unless of course you do work in an actual CS SW team (kinda hoping because otherwise you have no excuse at all)