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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

AIBU to actually believe my mum, over my daughter?

188 replies

AdamsAppleAA · 13/03/2016 20:30

Hi all, this just keeps playing around in my head and I'm not sure who I believe now.

I'm not too familiar with the site, so not sure how many responses I'd get, but I'll answer you all after my shower.

My daughter is 12. She has a long past of mental health disorders. She is on medication and has recently been released from an eating disorder clinic. She's doing well though.

My mother is an older woman and has a few heart conditions and is in and out of hospital. Last night, my daughter told me that she makes her feel uncomfortable and goes on to describe inappropriate touching. I was horrified.

I began to talk to her and she described things, etc. However, she said one of the main things was on a certain date when my mother was in hospital, so it was either a mix up, or a lie? I have been trying to juggle my time between the pair of them and there was an appointment I had to go to with my mum, but I also had a time to go and visit dd. I rearranged. I'm wondering if it stems from this?

Who would you believe? WWYD?

OP posts:
KenLeeDibidibidabdoo · 14/03/2016 13:18

Astounded at some of the responses here.
OP you need to report this to the police and they will speak to your daughter, other agencies, and if necessary your mum.
It will be hard but the police are trained to deal with these situations.

PurpleDaisies · 14/03/2016 13:18

You have decided the grandmother is innocent and there is "something wrong" about the daughter. You cannot possibly know this. No one can possibly know this until it is investigated by the right people-the police.

You appear to be advocating doing nothing but separating the grandmother and daughter and watching what happens. That is against every single piece of advice coming from the ponies and the Nspcc for what to do when a child tells you they have been abused.

PurpleDaisies · 14/03/2016 13:19

Obviously that should be the police not the ponies. That rather ruins the seriousness of my post.

PurpleDaisies · 14/03/2016 13:21

I am very anti child abuse but know that care has to be taken to avoid any false accusations.

This is totally wrong. No care at all had to be taken to avoid false allegations (assuming the op is not putting it on Facebook). You report to the police and they decide whether the allegations are false or not.

I am amazed and disappointed MNHQ are letting some of this stand.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 14/03/2016 14:25

Read this thread with mounting horror.

I'm so glad it attracted the attention of some real experts who have done a good job at countering such shocking (& deeply prejudiced) 'advice'.

Nothing more to add except please please be careful about what you do next. Don't get tempted into some kind of 'judge and jury' role, or force a confrontation. You don't have to choose between your mum and your daughter. That would be heart breaking, and you'd never quite know if you chose correctly.

Please don't listen to the people who want to make you judge jury and executioner. It seems that for some people who are proud to believe the terrible 'mentally ill people can't be trusted' blanket judgement, we are living in the 19th century. Perhaps they'd like to go visit Bedlam to stare at the freaks too?

I'm so sorry you are in this situation Flowers

Baconyum · 14/03/2016 16:41

"I am amazed and disappointed MNHQ are letting some of this stand."

I'm sure we're not the only ones!

Original poster
AdamsAppleAA · 14/03/2016 16:44

Thank you all, you've all been a great help.

I wasn't saying that because she has mental health issues, I think she's lying - someone asked if there was any reason to make you think either are lying and that's the only thing I could think of, with the appointment change, etc.

I managed to grab her key worker on the phone this morning - she suggested that because my daughter is so fragile (mental health wise) that I leave things just for now, until she can be spoken to. I have an appointment tomorrow with her. She thinks it could easily be her new medication, etc. or it could be just as easily that my mother has done such an awful thing... She says she'll get the right things ready for our appointment, whatever that means. However, I agree, the police is a must.

OP posts:
Baconyum · 14/03/2016 16:49

Good to know that you're taking the possibility seriously and have spoken to a professional and understand that this must be checked.

VelvetCushion · 14/03/2016 17:25

OP wishing you the best of luck.
Baconyum, MNHQ are not MH professionals. There are professionals on this thread that have given advice and that is all that is needed.
Nothing for MNHQ to do, except check this thread is not getting out of hand. Which it hasn't.

WomanWithAltitude · 14/03/2016 17:45

Really glad to hear that op.

I am horrified at some of the advice you've been given, but you're doing the right thing.

MNHQ
DawnMumsnet · 14/03/2016 19:09

Evening all,

We've had a number of reports about this thread from people who are extremely concerned about the advice being given to the OP.

We'd agree with many of the posters on this thread who have said that this is a safeguarding issue and disclosures of sexual abuse need to go straight to the police, regardless of any mental health issues.

OP, we're glad that you've decided to report this so that people who are trained to deal with these issues can advise you. We hope your DD's okay. Flowers

We're going to be removing any posts which we feel are not in the spirit of the site.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 14/03/2016 21:30

Well done OP.

stitch10yearson · 14/03/2016 22:41

I didnt realise that mumsnet towers condoned the guilty until proven innocent approach.

Very very disappointed.

WomanWithAltitude · 14/03/2016 23:05

Reporting a serious safeguarding issue to the appropriate authorities =/= 'the guilty until proven innocent approach'. Hmm

The op has taken the best approach to safeguard all those involved and ensure her daughter receives any support she needs, amd that is what matters.

Slutbucket · 14/03/2016 23:54

They are a number of issues that could be going on here. She could be disclosing abuse about your mother, disclosing and using your mother as surrogate to gauge how safe it is to disclose. However depending on her condition their might be a whole lot of things going on. She may be hallucinating, hearing voices, misreading situations. She might also be manipulating a situation where attention is taken from her mother to herself. I know that seems a terrible thing to say but some people with mental illness can be very manipulative and controlling due to their illness. She might also be having some reaction to her medication.
In this situation you have to follow your daughters lead. You have to show that you believe her as she will give more information to you and other professionals about what is actually going on. I would also keep a factual log of what your daughter has said to you noting dates and times. You also need to look at the multi agency policy for safeguarding in your area.

Finally don't speak to your mother about this but you do need to keep them apart until further investigation can occur. I'm so sorry that you are going through this it must be truly awful for you both. Flowers

Baconyum · 14/03/2016 23:56

No MNHQ is condoning 'we believe you' as opposed to the countless times victims of abuse haven't been believed.

We believe you doesn't mean convicting an accused prior to investigation but that when these allegations are made they should be taken seriously and investigated for all concerned.

Fauchelevent · 15/03/2016 00:32

OP, what a tricky situation for you to be in but by contacting police I think you're taking the right steps.

I'm shocked that stitches think MNHQ advising you take action and contact police on a safeguarding is "taking a guilty until proven innocent" stance. That this attitude exists is so worrying. What the hell is the OP supposed to do? Yes, her daughter might be lying, or obfuscating what has really happened but how on gods earth is taking action and involving the professionals who are far more able to deal with this than OP or any of us, "guilty until proven innocent"

I despair.

Slutbucket · 15/03/2016 00:48

Whatever the truth of the situation you have a very ill and fragile girl at the centre of this and professional help is required to get to the bottom of the issue.

Alasalas2 · 15/03/2016 00:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Slutbucket · 15/03/2016 01:33

Also I would like to point out that csa can be the cause of mental illnesse but it is not the only reason why people become ill. We have to be careful making these assertions. Mental illness doesn't have to have a trigger. It can just happen like any other illness.

nocoolnamesleft · 15/03/2016 02:25

So it's "we believe you" unless you're actually more vulnerable, like being a child, or having mental health problems...

OP, I am very glad to hear that you are indeed taking steps to protect your daughter and involve the right professionals. And they will find out whether there is anything to take further or not.

differentnameforthis · 15/03/2016 07:35

Note the lie about the dates. Why so quick to dismiss as a lie? It could have been a simple error in the dates, I don't understand why some many want this girl to be lying...plenty of older frail people can abuse others...my mother worked in care homes for the elderly, and plenty of those were not only verbally abusive, but physically too.

TheBouquets My child safeguarding training says you should remain child focused when abuse is suspected/disclosed. Which means supporting the child, reporting to a body that will investigate & making sure the child is safe & away from harm.

Why are you so keen to see the girl as lying?

You criticise us for convicting the grandmother, yet you have convicted the daughter of lies...

Surely any decent person would be against child abuse? What exactly does this mean? I don't understand what you are implying...I don't know anyone who is FOR child abuse, and certainly no one on this thread seems to be. What an odd thing to say!

I didnt realise that mumsnet towers condoned the guilty until proven innocent approach. Nothing to do with that, when a child discloses abuse, you are taught to keep a child focus, which means reporting & getting the child the help they need.

TheBouquets · 15/03/2016 16:01

Different = I am not involved in child protection other than as an average parent. However I was involved in the protection of elderly persons. It was more financial than sexual protection that was the theme of what I did. I do not think that either the 12 year old girl or the grandmother should be considered the wrong one. I think both the old lady and the young girl are fragile and vulnerable. The mum/daughter/middle lady I am worried about too as in my family there are/were very very old people and also young people I am middling age group. I think the middle lady is in the worst shoes here. Her two closest people are in a difficult situation and need her to sort it all out for them both. What if she closes the door on her mum and the mum drops dead with all the stress and upset on top of the heart conditions and it is found that the grandma was totally innocent. Equally if the middle lady "sides" with the grandma in the eyes of the daughter and it is found that although it was not the grandma but something has happened to the daughter. It is awful for the three females. I don't want anyone accused or excluded. Until someone with the right qualifications/experiences gets to the truth here no-one knows what really happened.

The worst aspect of this thread is that I was trying to pluck up the courage to speak to "the authorities" about a child who I think is in trouble. I spent time in the last few days watching the child's reactions and statements. I thought that everyone who has any connection to this child would be "under review" so to speak but I had no realised that there could be such vilification of an elderly woman with heart problems without any proof. I became quite scared by the anti grandma posts and the demands that the grandma is kept away from the child. There was 1 post saying about the grandma needs protected from the child and this accusation.
I am rethinking my future actions and plans about the child I was observing.
A child could now be having to wait for help because of the way this grandma has been spoken about on here.

PurpleDaisies · 15/03/2016 16:06

I am rethinking my future actions and plans about the child I was observing.
A child could now be having to wait for help because of the way this grandma has been spoken about on here.'

If you think a child is in trouble you report it. End of. It is your responsibility and absolutely nobody elses.

Get on the phone and do it now.

PurpleDaisies · 15/03/2016 16:12

I actually find it pretty awful that you're considering not reporting a child you think is in trouble because of this thread. Every person trained in safeguarding has said to report your suspicions. Mnhq have said the same. Any decent human being would help that child by reporting to the appropriate authority.