AIBU to actually believe my mum, over my daughter?

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Hi all, this just keeps playing around in my head and I'm not sure who I believe now.

I'm not too familiar with the site, so not sure how many responses I'd get, but I'll answer you all after my shower.

My daughter is 12. She has a long past of mental health disorders. She is on medication and has recently been released from an eating disorder clinic. She's doing well though.

My mother is an older woman and has a few heart conditions and is in and out of hospital. Last night, my daughter told me that she makes her feel uncomfortable and goes on to describe inappropriate touching. I was horrified.

I began to talk to her and she described things, etc. However, she said one of the main things was on a certain date when my mother was in hospital, so it was either a mix up, or a lie? I have been trying to juggle my time between the pair of them and there was an appointment I had to go to with my mum, but I also had a time to go and visit dd. I rearranged. I'm wondering if it stems from this?

Who would you believe? WWYD?

Sorry you are dealing with such a difficult and upsetting time with your family.

Most important to support your child through this, and show her that you will love her unconditionally either way. Show her you forgive her if she has lied and at the same time, ask her forgiveness if you have put her in a vulnerable situation where you have allowed her to be harmed and abuse has occurred.

Allow your daughter time to heal and time to disclose in a safe place, where no judgement will be made. Teach her forgiveness either way.

Hi OP, what a terrible place to be in at the moment. I really do feel for you, it is an awful situation and you must feel so confused.

The first thing I would like to say is that I work for the police in a safeguarding unit. The majority of the cases I deal with are rape and sexual assault on children and adults. I only disclose this because I think it's easy for people who don't work in this area to give advice, but sometimes that advice is just them saying what they would do and not really any experience led advice.

I'm not saying whether you should believe your daughter over your mother or the other way round. I don't think that this is a decision you should make. You're emotionally attached to this and either decision is going to have a massively negative impact on your relationship with the person you "don't believe". My advice is to ring the police and tell them everything that has been said by your daughter - whether it supports her or your mother, they just need to know everything you know about it. The police will investigate and decide what to do next. They'll contact any support workers your daughter has and build a bigger picture.

Don't push your daughter to give any more information, this will be gained by a trained officer. Just keep notes of anything that is said.

I'm not saying your mother has done this, but a lot of my cases do involve family members and for nearly every case there's someone who is shocked because they never thought the abuser was " like that". Even wives who have been married 60 years have been shocked that their husband has abused their children/grandchildren/great grandchildren throughout that whole time. It's really awful and it tears families apart, but that is better than keeping quiet and failing your family.

Ring today (101 ask for a log to be put on for the safeguarding unit) and get this all sorted out. You need to do this for you, your mum and your daughter. Please don't worry, your daughter will not be "in trouble" if it isn't true and either way she will be supported. :)

Baconyum
Well done. Feel better now?
I have seen it in my own family as stated before. And yes, the mental health team have said that my cousins constant lies and fabrications of the truth are due to his MH. So yes, in some cases extreme lying does happen with MH patients. Its a fact.

Baconyum
Look at OPs comment at 21.50.
She even states "the only reason I have for my daughter to me lying is her mental health problems"
So yes, mental health issues and lying can SOMETIMES go hand in hand. Like the boy in my family. FACT

Op, absolutely do not take Velvet's advice of speaking to your mum about it either with or without your daughter present. Especially not with the potential victim there, that would be horrific if the allegations are true.

The police may not go round for a good while yet.

We will just have to agree to disagree, but from a police perspective I think you're wrong and those actions could impact on any possible investigation, not to mention the absolute horror for a 12 year old victim to have to accuse a suspect to their face. That should never happen and would like terrible on the mother (the op) if she forced that situation.

A difficult and complex situation nonetheless. Absolutely, which is why the experts need to be called in.

So yes, in some cases extreme lying does happen with MH patients. Its a fact. Still doesn't mean the dd here is lying...

Op, just to reassure you, the police won't go straight round to your mothers house. They would investigate it first before putting the allegations to her.

If the grandmother loves her family, enduring being questioned in order that the daughter feels supported and the family get to the bottom of the mental health problems will probably be okay. I know that I would ring the police and if it did turn out to be untrue, I'd be talking to my mum about how I was sure it couldn't be true but felt that DD needed me to demonstrate my unconditional support and that I thought if I went ahead that way WHATEVER it was would have a chance of coming to light. Say it's not true, fine, but what is true that that girl needs specialist intervention from a trained team to find our how and why she is making up highly sexual stories.

It's really odd that this woman's status as a grandmother makes it so unfeasible to you that she could be an abuser, Velvet. Whatever the case though, the appropriate action is to treat it with credulity. The girl is obviously disturbed about sexual contact and I can't imagine a loving grandmother failing to see why it was important to treat her disclosure with utmost seriousness, even if you thought it was completely untrue. I know my mum would not put her own feeling that no person should ever dream she was capable of abuse over the proper support of a very disturbed 12 year old.

The OP said the only reason she could think of for the dd to be lying is her MH - that doesn't mean she necessarily has lied before due to her MH or is likely to be lying now, it's just the only thing OP can think of. And as MH problems don't automatically make you a liar then perhaps the dd had no reason at all to lie, so may well be telling the truth. At least about someone, even if it's not the grandma.

OP, please don't take it into your own hands, report it and let people who are trained to deal with these allegations do their jobs. The police do not make a habit of interrogating GM's with heart conditions without looking into the facts first.

It may never even get to point of the grandmother being spoken to. If it is untrue then the child may admit it to the police. They won't arrest/accuse unless they believe it to be true.

I think OP should speak to the grandmother with the child there too. Take it from there to see how to go forward.

That is absolute crap advice!! You DO NOT EVER challenge the accuser in front of the accused or vice versa! NEVER!!

This will give the accused the chance to intimidate the accuser (many victims feel intimidated by their abuser just by being near them, they hold such power over them), who will likely retract the allegations through fear!

Not to mention that it gives the abuser the "heads up" to fabricate lies/hide evidence.

AND furthermore, it gives them more ammunition to hurt & abuse the victim, and suggests that the parent/caregiver doesn't believe the abused, again giving the abuser additional ammunition over their victim.

Absolutely stupid advice!!!

You really think the GM is going to say "oh yes, dear...Of course I touched her like that"

I think OP needs another serious chat with daughter first then the grandmother, separate. Then take it from there. Did you not see where the police contact below said not to push the dd here? You do not try to investigate an allegation like this yourself, because it can be seen as suggestive questioning, and leading the victim. It has to be done very carefully to gather any evidence needed for a potential court case.

Im hoping the Grandmother is innocent. No, you hope the dd is lying...that's not the same as hoping the grandmother is innocent. I'm glad this isn't your child & I hope the op doesn't follow your advice.

OP, I work in MH and have worked extensively with kids who have been sexually abused. Statistically, people with MH issues are no more likely to falsely report sexual abuse than the rest of the population. So, your daughters mental health issues do not mean that this shouldn't be taken seriously. I agree with previous posters who have pointed out that if the child had accused a male relative there would be much less suspicion directed at her. Women can and do perpetrate sexual abuse. I would also point out that, in my experience, children and young people who have been abused often report that the experience of not being believed (especially by their nearest and dearest) was more traumatic than the abuse itself. Every child who reports abuse must be taken seriously and for those allegations to be properly investigated by trained professionals.

I am very concerned about some of the advice you have been given on this thread. Please do not confront your Mother about this yourself, especially in the presence of your daughter. This could be extremely damaging and wpuld jeopordise the validity of any furture investigation. Do not question your daughter, there is a reason why there are people within the Police who are given specialist training in order to do this. Children of this age are highly suggestible and she needs to be spoken to by someone who knows exactly what to ask and how to phrase it. It is an extremely delicate process. As difficult as it is to relinquish control in such a frightening and confusing situation, you need to leave this in the hands of the experts.

I just wanted to say OP that you are going to be given so bad advice by well meaning people on here. You need to speak to cahms, good luck and best wishes to you and your DD

And i wouldnt leave the two of them alone. To protect your mother.

Explain the seriousness of the consequences of the events and gauge her reaction

Please do not do this, it is more likely to do harm than good. I think it's ok to say that you need to take this further because it's a serious thing but I think any further questioning could muddy the waters. OP doesn't know what she is doing and isn't really in a position to do any of this appropriately. This should be investigated by the appropriate authorities rather than OP trying to muddle her way through, trying to decide who to believe.

OP, sorry you are in this position. My advice is speak to CAHMS and/or NSPCC. I suspect both will tell you that you need to report this accusation- and may have to do so themselves. I don't think you can ignore this.

I am aghast at posters who seem to believe that having a mental health problem seems to automatically mean that an individual is a liar. Yes, some people with a mental illness can lie (and sometimes this can be part of their illness so only done when unwell)- but many people who don't have a mental illness are liars too. It is so ignorant to suggest having a mental illness makes an individual unlikely to be telling the truth in any given situation.

I second Yorksha's post- said better than I could.

"There are always clues, and as her daught at the same age, you were in a position to be aware of these nuances."

This is simply not true. There are not "always clues" that someone is an abuser, and it is this kind of assumption that allows sexual abuse to go undetected for many years. I have been involved in several cases where grandparents have abused their grandchildren (and been prosecuted) but did not abuse their own children so the fact that OP has not had any concerns up until now is not necessarily relevent.

OP, it is not a case of picking a 'side', either your Mum or your daughter as some posters on this thread seem to suggest. You need to pass on what your daughter has disclosed to the experts so that they can look at the whole picture in an objective way (which you as her Mum, and your Mum's daughter cannot do) and reach a conclusion. I agree with JeanGeanie, you will get a lot of well meaning but ill informed advice on here because there is so much myth and misconception surrounding the subjects of MH and sexual abuse. I would strongly suggest that you the Police and the Mental Health professionals looking after your daughter and take their advice, they will have dealt with these situations many times before.

that you listen to the Police, sorry, rubbish typing

You need to report it, regardless. You will do irreparable damage to the relationship you have with your daughter. If it transpires she is lying, then hopefully your Mother will be understanding enough to see why you had to report it. She may just be testing the water first to see how you react. Either way, lie or truth, she needs support and help now.

Velvet

You do realise your approach could actually make things so much worse for everyone? Including her mother.

The police may not even interview the OP's mother if they can tell from interviewing her daughter that there is no case to answer. They will be trained do this interview process properly.

If this accusation is true, your approach could be so incredibly damaging that it is simply not worth taking the risk.