My dad is making me look wealthier than I am (long)

[dazedandconfused17]

I know my diamond shoes are too tight and in the big scheme of things I'm incredibly lucky.

When I was 22 I inherited a house and some land from my grandparents. It came to me as my mother had died when I was little. It isn't Blenheim Palace or anything, but it had been in her family since 1693 and parts of it date back to the 12th century. My DF thought at the time I should sell it, as while it is gorgeous, it has always been a lot of work to maintain etc. In the end (after a couple of years of faff), DH (then DP) and I decided to move in and try and keep the place going.

We're now in our late thirties and it's still here. It's been a rough ride, but so far we have kept the place standing and our family going. It has, however, been really financially tough, especially the last couple of years, due to a bunch of unexpected expenses, specifically massive issues with the roof. Last year in a real pinch, DH borrowed £2000 from a friend to cover vets bills for our dog. At the time, he was meant to be starting a new contract (he works freelance to help support the family) and thought he'd be able to pay back in a couple of months. The job fell through at the last minute and we've not been able to repay on time. Currently I'm paying it off at a rate of £400 per month, which is very hard (we have zero spare income at all right now) but it is getting done.

The friend in question has been, quite reasonably, annoyed with us and said she was only able to spare the money for a couple of months and needs it all back. Last time I saw her she had a massive rant about how we clearly could afford to as the kids went skiing after Christmas and we have a nearly new car.

The thing is this comes from my dad. He has always said that he won't loan us money (which is fair) and he doesn't want us to rely on him as we're grown ups, but does like to sometimes give random gifts. So, for example, he and my stepmum took the kids away, along with my half brothers (who are both much younger than me - closer to my kids age) for a skiing holiday. We could never afford it. And when he wanted to get a new car last year, he gave us his old one, which was a decent three year old VW Passat (I know! I know!). But this is all coming together to make us look super rich - we live in a huge house (even if currently we can't heat it) and we have a nice car and the kids go skiing and she is getting really angry that we're drawing out the repayments.

DH is working, but only part time as a postman as he hasn't been able to get a new contact like the one that fell through. I am working, part time out of the home and part time on our business which is meant to get the place a bit more profitable and a bit less of a drain. I did try and explain that we don't have money, just a gift from my dad, and she said that if he could afford to give us a nearly new car, he could definitely afford to give us the money we need to repay her.

Is she being U? I am pretty certain that DF won't loan me the money if I ask, and if he does he'll be really unhappy about it, even though he can afford it. Is he being U? Should I ask anyway?

We have tried to get a bank loan, but after a bunch of financial hiccups last year they pretty much laughed in our face at the suggestion of an unsecured personal loan and we can't take a loan through the business and spend it on a personal debt, I don't think. Loan should be paid off start of May, but it's just getting there.

You don't say what sort of work your husband does but it sounds as though the most lucrative stuff comes from the London area.

I've watched a lot of contractors go permanent in the last 2 yrs. Odd as they rode out the recession but the market has changed quite a lot I think. Day rates are much more aggressively negotiated now especially by the banks. They [apart from RBS] are mostly in profit but there is very tight cost control especially around headcount and resource generally.

The last two years have been tough and work hard to come by. IMO your husband needs to consider looking for and accepting a permanent job elsewhere asap as a tactical step. The long term impact on his CV and skills is too great. It's not just the direct skills to do his job but also the working environment? Regulations change, laws are passed, it's easy to become out of touch very quickly and contractors are expected to be top of their game. Of course it's slightly different if his expertise is more niche like bat conservation or paintings restorations where time passing is less critical.

I'm sorry to hear you are both having such a tough time. I think that the advice from Beaufort Belle is very good.

I'd also consider selling one of the holiday let cottages on a leasehold basis? Then you get a hopefully hefty capital chunk of change, a possible side income as a managing agent/cleaner for sublets, and the possibility of the cottage returning to the "estate" for a later generation. Either that or look at long term letting for a reduced but more stable income.

Im sorry but I think your loyalty to the trust (though admirable) is unsustainable. You clearly need to move house.

Going against the grain I think, but...

ONLY TWO PAYMENTS TO GO! C'mon, YOU CAN DO IT! Hang on in there.

DO NOT sell the house. Friends come and go, years of history you would be regretting it forever, and ever.

Chalk the debt up to a bad experience. If you are able to salvage the friendship do, otherwise remember if the bank's not lending you the money there's a reason they've decided that. Don't borrow or lend money from friends again!

I am in a similar situation with Grandad paying school fees. We look quite loaded but our income is minimal. Why would you turn gifts down because of an entirely separate situation? It would just make you poorer all round and probably upset your Dad.

piece the op's lifestyle is unsustainable-not this single debt. People aren't stupid enough to advise her to sell the house over £800z

Can't believe people are suggesting op sell the car, what help will that be?! I'm guessing op needs a car to get around if she's rural and it would be madness to sell it for something cheaper which will probably keep breaking down/needing repairs, much better to stick with 3yr old car that's reliable.

Would second others suggestions of trying to make some cash from the land- temp measures such as renting out some fields for horses/livestock could be a good move and requires zero effort on your part, also hiring out the land for weddings/events.

It sounds like the house will be affordable once the ventures such as the renovations are done, along with the bees and small business, it's just getting over the rough patch and getting the work completed etc

Personally I think I'd look into a logbook loan against the car to repay your friend in the meantime as its only two more payments and think about getting pet insurance if there are any other pets you're responsible for.

Good luck op, once the rough patch is over sounds like you'll have a great venture.

OP I don't really have any practical advice, but it just seems as if you need to stop being (or feeling) to obligated to everyone - to your grandparents, to the house, to your dad, to your dog, to your friend.

This is YOUR turn to have the house and YOUR turn to be alive - you don't somehow 'lose' by living by your own rules and not doing what someone else (dead or alive) apparently wants you to do.

Obviously the debt to your friend needs to be settled ASAP but currently you're using the excuse that other people don't want you to do X, Y or Z, so you can't possibly.

But you can. You absolutely can. I know what it feels like to be so bound by obligation that you are practically paralysed, but it's not healthy or beneficial at all.

I think it is lovely that your dad wants to take the children on holiday. They are making memories with him that they will cherish in the future. And he can obvs see that you needed a car and so gave you his when he upgraded. What is wrong with that?!

You've got a good friend there though so hang onto her.
Also, I know what it's like having a freelance husband. Most of my friends don't understand why anyone who want to work that way but when it works it really works. Hang on in there, things will turn around - just follow your vision and it will come together. We often have to sink to the lows to appreciate the highs when they come along - especially when we have worked so hard for them.
I don't understand why people are getting fixated on your children not wanting the property. Surely that is their decision as and when the time comes. If you follow your vision it could be a great income for them, even if they want to get someone else to live there and manage it. We can't all sell our homes in case our kids don't want them in the future! However, I do agree that you should consider leaving it equally to them all rather than just one. It is likely to cause resentment. Good luck!

Exactly purple. We must have had at least half a dozen posts now from people decrying others telling OP to sell the house and/or land purely because of an £800 debt. But that's not why people are saying she could consider cashing in on some of her substantial assets!

You don't sound like much of a friend. Being months late paying back a loan isn't acceptable. You seem to have the attitude that its OK for you and DH to play around doing pieces of work here and there, and that's all fine because you can just scrounge off friends and your Dad.

Sell the car and get a cheaper one. Use the money to pay back your friend. Then get a full-time job and stop playing around pretending to work, relying on other people to pay for holidays, cars and vet bills.

Harsh - OP has may have just hit a rough patch. It can sometimes be more cost effective to be self employed and work from home. I know several people who run holiday letting type businesses and earn enough to live on. we are not talking huge amounts but 35 - 50 K gross, with no mortgage and a generous Father some people would manage just fine. Throw an expensive roof repair in to the mix and we could all run in to temporary problems.

Beaufort Belle- made some kind and measured suggestions, yes get the experts on board, get some valuations and pick out the best money making ideas.

If you love your home you will find a way to make it work.

Always, the problem is that her rough patch is having a negative impact on other people. She is months late paying back a loan to a friend who is much less wealthy than she is. That is unfair and very selfish. i don't think she should sell the house to pay an £800 debt, but she could sell the car and get a cheaper one and give her friend back the money that is due.

As heartbreaking as i agree it must be, i highly doubt your GPs would want to see you struggle like this. Maybe a stupid question, but can you not mortgage the house and release some equity to get some of the a critical work done?

Well, good news and bad news today.

Good news is that one of the grants we applied for came in, which is a massive step forward in getting the house stabilized and in good shape. DH also has a meeting in London on Wednesday which he has managed to get the time off for which could lead to a two year contract which would also help massively.

Bad news in that I had a chat with my father which went pretty badly. I mentioned the log book loan idea which he took really badly. He is currently furious with me and explained at length that he doesn't give me presents so I can sell them and 'exploit our relationship for financial gain'. And if I do 'abuse his generosity' like this he'll won't be able to help at all in future as he won't be able to trust me. Then I got the third degree on every present he's given me or the kids in the last three years. I have apologized profusely for even thinking about it - I get that a lot of posters probably think I should burn that relationship to pay off the debt, but that's difficult. He's my DF. It is hard to deliberately choose to alienate him.

I do appreciate all the comments, even the ones which are a bit harsh. I do read them, and I get that they are all sincerely meant. There's been some really helpful advice in here too. TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams - thank you for the advice in particular. It was really solid practical advice. The field DH is in is still very much contract based - getting a permanent job would involve moving back into the related field he came from (which would be quite difficult as he's been out of that for ten years now) or making another career change, but we're looking at that.

All the money making schemes are great! I am making notes on every one.

The grant sounds positive

Your dad is being a bit unreasonable imo. He doesn't want to help financially by loaning you £800, but if you downgrade the car he gave you to help yourself he'll essentially shun you for life... Has he always been emotionally manipulative?

Then I got the third degree on every present he's given me or the kids in the last three years. I have apologized profusely for even thinking about it

I'd be inclined to tell him to keep his next round of "gifts" since they apparently are "given" more for his gratification than for yours.

Hope it works out with the house. I'd fight to keep it in my hands, as well.

wow agree with mavis - very harsh of your df, surely he would be proud of you to do anything to keep this house going? has he ever suggested you sell it now? maybe he still thinks you should and this is why he wont help?

Your dad sounds quite rigid in what he expects- on the other hand, I can see he wouldn't want you to sell the car he just bought you, given as a car and not to be realized for cash. Your instincts were right there, he doesn't want to give you money and that's that.

The rest sounds positive, good luck with it all!

Your dad doesn't sound like a totally great guy :-(

What's your step mother like? I'm sorry about the way your father behaved. That's unacceptable and very disappointing.

Oh, DF has always thought I should sell the house and always thought DH and I were mad to keep it. I don't know if he's manipulative per se. He's a bit controlling and tends to get really stroppy when he feels as if people are trying to manipulate him or work around him.

I think in his mind, he has said before he doesn't want to give me money or help me financially, and if I sell his gifts, then I'm disrespecting that wish of his and using his presents to do the thing he said he wouldn't do. If that makes sense.

BeaufortBelle - she's lovely in a lot of ways, but won't argue with DF, especially on my behalf. She didn't raise me - I was in uni when they got married - so it's not a super close relationship although we do get on. She's been really good for him in general - he's a lot more hands on with my half-brothers than he ever was with me - but I don't know if I could ask for help with this.

You know what when you make your bed, if it's uncomfy you don't have to lie in it. It seems to me your father is enjoying your discomfort because you didn't do what he wanted. I wouldn't let him retain a hold by accepting any more stuff from him even if total independence means selling up. Could you knock the house down and build a new one more cheaply and invest in the land?

invite me and DC to stay: we love an ancient pile, will pay, and bring home-made cake

I'd be inclined to tell him to keep his next round of "gifts" since they apparently are "given" more for his gratification than for yours.

Like that's ever going to happen. There's a pattern to the ops posts. They all involve getting 'stuff'. Not much heads in the opposite direction. Reminds me of a member of my own family. Very materialistic and would sell there soul to be at the front of the queue for the next free handout.