My dad is making me look wealthier than I am (long)

[dazedandconfused17]

I know my diamond shoes are too tight and in the big scheme of things I'm incredibly lucky.

When I was 22 I inherited a house and some land from my grandparents. It came to me as my mother had died when I was little. It isn't Blenheim Palace or anything, but it had been in her family since 1693 and parts of it date back to the 12th century. My DF thought at the time I should sell it, as while it is gorgeous, it has always been a lot of work to maintain etc. In the end (after a couple of years of faff), DH (then DP) and I decided to move in and try and keep the place going.

We're now in our late thirties and it's still here. It's been a rough ride, but so far we have kept the place standing and our family going. It has, however, been really financially tough, especially the last couple of years, due to a bunch of unexpected expenses, specifically massive issues with the roof. Last year in a real pinch, DH borrowed £2000 from a friend to cover vets bills for our dog. At the time, he was meant to be starting a new contract (he works freelance to help support the family) and thought he'd be able to pay back in a couple of months. The job fell through at the last minute and we've not been able to repay on time. Currently I'm paying it off at a rate of £400 per month, which is very hard (we have zero spare income at all right now) but it is getting done.

The friend in question has been, quite reasonably, annoyed with us and said she was only able to spare the money for a couple of months and needs it all back. Last time I saw her she had a massive rant about how we clearly could afford to as the kids went skiing after Christmas and we have a nearly new car.

The thing is this comes from my dad. He has always said that he won't loan us money (which is fair) and he doesn't want us to rely on him as we're grown ups, but does like to sometimes give random gifts. So, for example, he and my stepmum took the kids away, along with my half brothers (who are both much younger than me - closer to my kids age) for a skiing holiday. We could never afford it. And when he wanted to get a new car last year, he gave us his old one, which was a decent three year old VW Passat (I know! I know!). But this is all coming together to make us look super rich - we live in a huge house (even if currently we can't heat it) and we have a nice car and the kids go skiing and she is getting really angry that we're drawing out the repayments.

DH is working, but only part time as a postman as he hasn't been able to get a new contact like the one that fell through. I am working, part time out of the home and part time on our business which is meant to get the place a bit more profitable and a bit less of a drain. I did try and explain that we don't have money, just a gift from my dad, and she said that if he could afford to give us a nearly new car, he could definitely afford to give us the money we need to repay her.

Is she being U? I am pretty certain that DF won't loan me the money if I ask, and if he does he'll be really unhappy about it, even though he can afford it. Is he being U? Should I ask anyway?

We have tried to get a bank loan, but after a bunch of financial hiccups last year they pretty much laughed in our face at the suggestion of an unsecured personal loan and we can't take a loan through the business and spend it on a personal debt, I don't think. Loan should be paid off start of May, but it's just getting there.

I luffed my flat. I don't think there were many light bulb types 30 odd years ago!

There's so many pig minded people on here. If OP hadn't mentioned what kind of house she lived in there's no way that people would have suggested selling up over £2k worth of debt!!

Fwiw, OP I'm glad your friend is on board, anyone who would want you to sell your assets for the sake of £800 isn't a friend.

I understand your sentimentality towards the building- if you grew up running around there, you naturally picture your kids having the same great experiences and want the same for them and theirs. It's a tough call and a challenging time for Country homes.

I don't think your situation sounds especially dire OP. Just seems like a bit of a rough patch. I can see why your friend is cross, but I'd just explain the situation to get and I'm sure she will understand.

Longer term, i DONT think you should necessarily sell the house as it sounds like you have some good ideas for generating income from it.

I think if you ride out the next few years, get your various income generating plans fully up and running then STILL can't make a decent amount then consider selling off part of the estate eg. some land / cheaper cottage / other building which may get planning permission. Then only if you still don't have enough consider maybe splitting the main house and selling half or the whole thing.... I think there's lots of steps you can take before having to sell the entire property.

Pig minded . I agree that two grand is a ridiculously small amount of cash (relatively speaking), but the whole point is that op doesn't either have it or have a way to raise it; signifying that she simply can't afford her current way of life.
Things are pared to the bone, with no cushion whatsoever for the next bill that comes in.

English isn't my first Flogging! DP tells me it is Pigheaded. (I don't see the difference?!)

Many people live in houses where they are getting by ok until they have a bad patch. If they lived in a 2 bed Ex-Council house somewhere nobody would be telling them to sell, just to economise.

Clearly if OP's plans do not work out and also her DP's work issues then they could be in a big problem. But I wouldn't bail out just when the going gets hard. No point in walking away at the first obstacle.

I prefer pig minded

Frankly holiday cottages make almost no profit. If you factor in the time cleaning preparing meeting and greeting. Replacing stuff. Furnishing to high level. Sheets and towels from ikea for our 2x2 bed cottages came to 1000€ for starters. Long term rentals are much better earners, with almost no out lays. Most holiday rentals get around 12 to 20 weeks a year max. The exception to the rule is large beach houses.

Your land should be making you some cash. At the very least as grazing for sheep.

I think you probably need to find someone more business orientated to take a look at the place. Without wishing to offend your ideas are really just fiddling while Rome burns.

Long term could it be a conference centre or the like? How many bedrooms is it?

Try and get on location scout books for filming.

Personally I think if you cannot envisage leaving your kids enough capital to run the place then you should sell it. It's deeply unfair on them. Only one of them can inherit it as it stands, doing that is going to create a whole other set of injustices.

We have cousins with piles on both sides. They won't be being inherited they'll be sold. This isn't the world your grandparents new. It's an unfriendly place for the landed poor. And you are that.

Jeez you are getting a hard time. My boiler just broke and I didn't have money to pay for a new one so had to borrow off my mum and put some on a credit card not a single person told me to sell my car or sell my house!!

If anything else goes wrong with the house I would be in a bit of trouble and again would have to sue credit cards and again I'd doubt that anyone would be telling me to sell my house or car.....daft comments. Most people I know would struggle with a large bill and most people I know have bugger all savings.

Sometimes shite things happen in amongst the good. You'll get back on track I'm sure and what you are trying to achieve sounds lovely by the way. The holiday cottages on 70 acres sounds divine too.

I'm glad your friend has said no to you getting the 'log book loan' what ever that is. I would be pleased that someone was paying me back money and £400 a month is a decent amount too.

Sorry to hear that your dog died

Everyone I know with big houses either has the money to live in them, or if they don't work or work part time they hold courses etc.

Some friends of my parents were artists/art teachers living in converted barn in countryside, they did B&Bs for a few years then teaching holidays for German teachers etc, which went down well for a few years. Eventually they sold and now do lithograph and art holidays in their house in foothills of Pyrenees. People don't appreciate how hard it is to do B&Bs or holidays, when their son was diagnosed with Aspbergers it made life even harder for them as the mother in particular was strung out with cleaning/cooking with little or no extra help and then they took the tourists on day trips to various places.

'Boutique camping seems to be a bit of a money spinner. Can't cost that much to get in a few compost loos and a couple of showers?

Can start off with BYO tent but people lay stupid amounts to stay in a yurt/bell tent/gypsy van.'

They don't, really. If you charge more than a commercial campsite it's going to be very stiff competition.

Since you say you're in a place where it's hard for locals to afford housing I think wally has a good suggestion.

A place round here has done that with their old, extensive servants' and staff housing. Borrowed money to seriously work on them, they needed it, and now full of long-term tenants. A lot of people wanted to retire there but couldn't afford it and they take housing benefit from OAP tenants. They have one row of housing for seasonal workers.

They also rent space in the grounds for people to garden. Not all councils have allotments, and rural ones often don't, as well as cottage housing with only yards.

They also rent some of the land to football clubs and bowling clubs.

Personally I think if you cannot envisage leaving your kids enough capital to run the place then you should sell it. It's deeply unfair on them. Only one of them can inherit it as it stands, doing that is going to create a whole other set of injustices

There's nothing more lovely than growing up in a big old place, with leaking ceilings or without. I don't think it's the OP's responsibility to build capital for the kids to run it at all.

Personally I would do what the French do which is leave it to all the children equally. They can jointly decide what they want to do with it.

Yes, I do think it is unfair to leave it to one child only. You should ensure that your children are given equal assets.

I too think you should leave it to all your DC.
You and your dh are struggling to keep things going, why would you put that stress onto one child?
I know a lot of farming families and whilst it used to be he done thing to leave everything to the eldest son, it's much more common now to leave the farm equally to all DC, thank goodness!

Op I read the entire thread and I do feel for you. I can also see friend's viewpoint but glad you patched things up. I hope things work out for you. I don't think you sound entitled at all, this was all thrust upon you. I hope it all works out how you want it, I think you sound hard working. Good luck to you.

dazedandconfused re "My will currently leaves it all to my oldest, but I don't know if that's the right thing to do. He might not want it. I really don't think I'm going to make any major decisions about that right now, however, until things stabilize a little bit."

IMHO please do not leave it to one child. It feels very divisive to do so. Please change your will to leave it equally to all your children. You can ask a solicitor to make whatever stipulations you wish. I know at the moment you won't have money to make changes to your will but once you have that money I would suggest you do so.

Your children will grow up to value and love each other (equally, ideally) and for you to leave this massive item to one child is utterly unfair IMHO.

My mum has just died (a month ago) and had she left such a big thing to my sister and not to me, I would be devastated. Knowing in advance that you planned to do this could be very inhibiting for your kid's relationship with each other and with you, IMHO.

The child who gets the property may not want it and may sell it, they may have the ideal to make provisions for their siblings but by that time they may be married to someone who feels differently!

Re "I guess we'd probably want to talk to our kids as they get older and work out what they would like to do. Ideally, if the house can be made self supporting and the business work, it would be all turned into some kind of trust..." That sounds much better.

Good luck.

But people the only reason is gets left to one child only is because the intention is that they shouldn't ever sell it or profit the sale of it, merely live in it for nothing but pay for its upkeep and have the chance to profit from any income it makes, then pass it to their eldest child. It isn't possible to have that sort of arrangement when ownership is split equally between several children.

It's all a bit of a nonsense in this day and age frankly. Like the OP said, it's not Blenheim Palace, but if it is of considerable architectural importance and size and deserves to be preserved for future generations then let the National Trust take it over, or sell it to a hotel group or something. I find the idea of gifting something to a child that is in effect nothing more than a giant gilded cage that imprisons them and severely limits all their life choices just to kowtow to the wishes of a bunch of dead ancestors all a bit silly.

Unless the OP can get her act together and quickly come up with a plan for an effective and profitable business from the place it simply needs to go. And even if she does that I still think that leaving it to one child is unfair. But if this is not uncommon in families that are landed gentry types so I guess they grow up with an understanding and acceptance that it's just how it is.

I would be looking for a way to keep ownership of the house but as a business rather than residential property and split it as an asset between all my children. For example, owning the freehold jointly between the children and leasing it to a company that runs it as a business premises. Or setting up a business in partnership with experts in that field (maybe conference centre/hotel/retreat/residential special school/care home for the elderly) and benefitting from an income/shares from that business. That way any repairs are tax deductible too.

You should have stuck to the terms of the loan. Regardless of houses, cars, holidays and how they were paid for. If it was a bank loan then fair enough, they're big and stupid enough to look after themselves. A personal loan from a generous friend us another matter altogether.
Shouldn't have accepted if there was any doubt whatsoever you could not pay it back on the agreed date.

I do have sympathy. When there was that series on about country houses I alawys thought, surely you would just flog it for several million quid to a hotel chain and have a nice life? But then , how could you be the one to sell it after 350 years in the family? And go down in family history as the one to sell?
Totally see the friends PoV tho. I would think I'd hit the jackpot if someone gave me a 3 year old car, let alone all the rest. Lesson learnt I guess both ways. Hope things improve for you.

I can totally understand why your friend is annoyed about not receiving the loan back as promised.....he or she obviously trusted you.....

I also feel that you should maybe cut your losses, sell the house and at least be able to have a life hopefully without as many financial hardships and worries.....seriously think about it before it's too late...

No one knows what is around the corner, what will happen one day to the next, God forbid neither of you will have to overcome ill health....

Take care and good luck

I don't understand why people are saying the dad should help OP with the house. It was not in his family, but from the mother's side, and now he has another family as the OP says she has young half-brothers. He obviously is generous in terms of holidays/car etc but I doubt whether his financial situation is good enough to pay for a country house renovation.

This reminds me of that Country House Rescue programme and one particular man who had a disintegrating country pile but whatever was suggested he sort of half smiled and said it wasn't possible. He just wanted to live as if it were 1910. I think OP has to think what is possible. There are some good suggestions on this thread. Waiting for a Lottery win ain't one of them.

I also don't think you should sell because of one rough patch but perhaps you need to build in review periods of for example two years. That way you can look at how business plans have gone and review finances.

Do you have actual written down business plans? If not that is a practical thing you can start on to take control. You can good templates online.

I do feel for you, it's hard with the emotions that are tied up in the property. Dps parents live in a part medieval building similar to what you describe and I have no intention of moving into when he inherits it (he knows this) but I also know it will be hard for him to let go when the time comes. It has been in the family a long time but times change and someone else will get to start a history in it.

I think you will be fine and seem sensible. In terms of your dad I think he does sound generous especially with your dc. Does he feel resentment that he never got a chance to live in the house? Is that doesn't want to help?

If there is land, could some of that not be leased out e.g for a horse or something. Wouldn't generate a large amount but would take some of the pressure off perhaps? Sure you could charge a couple of hundred for a field if there was a tap (for water) and access from the road so owner could attend to horse.

As there's only £800 left I'd be tempted to get a credit card and pay that way then pay that off in fixed instalments.

Selling house to fund a £800 loan is stupid as legal fees alone would be more than that!

I have read the entire OP and thread.
I feel some unkindness coming throught the replies, but a lot of good, (if not always workable,) suggestions too.
For what it is worth:

1. I would explain to father as you have explained to us... if he will help out, pay back "friend" immediately. (I hate lending my sons money, but would rather do so than have them paying interest to banks.)
2. Pay back father at £400 installments as now paying "friend".
3. Either insure pets against future treatments, or the pets have to go. Sorry.
4. Review situation with "friend".... Seems to me she is a very jealous sort? imo she isn't really helping anything much and perhaps she should go too!!
5. Sit down with husband and write out your budget carefully, you may then see areas where you can make strategic changes.

Good luck and best wishes.

Firstly OP, I wanted to say how sorry I am about the loss of your dog. It is devastating to lose a pet .
Secondly living in a big old house is a labour of love, and nine times out of ten, people who aren't in your shoes just wont get it. The costs appear out of nowhere and blindside you.
It sounds like you've had a run of spectacularly bad luck with your earnings and with the restoration projects - I think your repayment plan and heartfelt apology to your friend is the best course. Someone up thread suggested buying her a plant for her new garden when the repayment is done, I think that is an excellent idea.
I suspect there is vast backstory with your dad, so this advice might not be appropriate, but I would sit down with him and explain how hard you are fighting to keep your heads above the water. Even his understanding, if not his assistance may help you feel less frazzled.
Perhaps most importantly, it is worth considering what your mum would have wanted for you: if the business is not going to turn enough money longterm to pay back your investments, would she want you to go down with the proverbial ship, or tie her grandchildren to the same fate? It is so hard to be clinical about such emotive stuff, but when you find a calm moment, try and think it through: a decision to sell some or all of the estate once the house is closer to finished doesn't have to constitute failure, I think all most mums hope for is that their children be happy and secure. The rest is a bonus if it can be pulled off.
Again for your losses.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I gather from the first and final few pages that you've had advice on how to make your finances work.

Basically, it seems you currently have a lifestyle you can't afford, so it's time to make some tough decisions. Either change your lifestyle (which painful as it would be might mean selling the house and land) or get more money coming in somehow. Go through your finances carefully and thoroughly, and if you can't see a way to make ends meet in the long term without needing to borrow off friends, something needs to give. Your situation is the same as anyone living beyond their means whatever the reason, and you need to stop doing it - it's unsustainable and stressful.

Re the loan from a friend. You need a quick fix for this - I would be furious if it was me having lent you the cash and seeing you driving around in a fancy car. Selling the car and replacing it with a cheaper one so that you can repay the friend and have a bit of a cushion to tide you over the next few months seems like an obvious thing to me. Apologies if you've explained up-thread somewhere why this isn't possible - but on what I've read, I can't see why you haven't done it.