My dad is making me look wealthier than I am (long)

[dazedandconfused17]

I know my diamond shoes are too tight and in the big scheme of things I'm incredibly lucky.

When I was 22 I inherited a house and some land from my grandparents. It came to me as my mother had died when I was little. It isn't Blenheim Palace or anything, but it had been in her family since 1693 and parts of it date back to the 12th century. My DF thought at the time I should sell it, as while it is gorgeous, it has always been a lot of work to maintain etc. In the end (after a couple of years of faff), DH (then DP) and I decided to move in and try and keep the place going.

We're now in our late thirties and it's still here. It's been a rough ride, but so far we have kept the place standing and our family going. It has, however, been really financially tough, especially the last couple of years, due to a bunch of unexpected expenses, specifically massive issues with the roof. Last year in a real pinch, DH borrowed £2000 from a friend to cover vets bills for our dog. At the time, he was meant to be starting a new contract (he works freelance to help support the family) and thought he'd be able to pay back in a couple of months. The job fell through at the last minute and we've not been able to repay on time. Currently I'm paying it off at a rate of £400 per month, which is very hard (we have zero spare income at all right now) but it is getting done.

The friend in question has been, quite reasonably, annoyed with us and said she was only able to spare the money for a couple of months and needs it all back. Last time I saw her she had a massive rant about how we clearly could afford to as the kids went skiing after Christmas and we have a nearly new car.

The thing is this comes from my dad. He has always said that he won't loan us money (which is fair) and he doesn't want us to rely on him as we're grown ups, but does like to sometimes give random gifts. So, for example, he and my stepmum took the kids away, along with my half brothers (who are both much younger than me - closer to my kids age) for a skiing holiday. We could never afford it. And when he wanted to get a new car last year, he gave us his old one, which was a decent three year old VW Passat (I know! I know!). But this is all coming together to make us look super rich - we live in a huge house (even if currently we can't heat it) and we have a nice car and the kids go skiing and she is getting really angry that we're drawing out the repayments.

DH is working, but only part time as a postman as he hasn't been able to get a new contact like the one that fell through. I am working, part time out of the home and part time on our business which is meant to get the place a bit more profitable and a bit less of a drain. I did try and explain that we don't have money, just a gift from my dad, and she said that if he could afford to give us a nearly new car, he could definitely afford to give us the money we need to repay her.

Is she being U? I am pretty certain that DF won't loan me the money if I ask, and if he does he'll be really unhappy about it, even though he can afford it. Is he being U? Should I ask anyway?

We have tried to get a bank loan, but after a bunch of financial hiccups last year they pretty much laughed in our face at the suggestion of an unsecured personal loan and we can't take a loan through the business and spend it on a personal debt, I don't think. Loan should be paid off start of May, but it's just getting there.

She sounds like a lovely friend.

Oh and to the poster who talked about getting my passion back - thank you and bless you for understanding. That really helped.

Glad you sorted it out with your friend. I was going to post that you should just keep up the last couple of months repayments with her and deal with her being annoyed. Yes, it is bad that you couldn't pay it back as planned, but life doesn't always go as planned. Tbh, if she had had such a bad experience before, then she should know better than to lend out large suns of money again!

I don't think you ahould sell the house, but when the renovations are done, I think you and your husband really need to get going on finding ways to make it generate income - weddings, concerts, fairs, sales, campsite, etc.

Glad you have sorted things out with your friend. Perhaps when you have paid back the money, you could send her a bouquet of flowers, or get vouchers, night in a hotel or something to show your appreciation.

Op i agree - it sounds like it could be a decent business eventually. It sounds like you're having an awful time at the minute but that you're trying to sort it.

Could either of the cottages be a permanent rental rather than holiday lets?

Could you release any equity in the house? It sounds like you actually need a fair chunk to get you sorted.

Something that worries me though is how you'll feel long term though if neither of your kids want to keep it on?

Long term - would you have room to set up an outdoor kids play space? They seem to make money.

Chin up op, it sounds like your heart is in the right place ans that you've had a tough couple of years.

dazedandconfused17 I have not read all the posts so feel free to ignore me!

I can't quite believe you asked in your opening post if you friend who lent you £2,000 is being unreasonable! She is not.

Why not ask you dad for a loan, the worst he can say is no.

You could sell the car.

I might be tempted to try and rent out the house and live elsewhere cheaper to save money.

I hope it works out for you.

I hope you now have your dog insured for medical bills (or did you already and if so why was it £2k - nosy question feel free to ignore!)

The dog is dead italian. Readjng the op's posts would at least be a start if you don't want to read the whole thing.

Italiangreyhound - not insuring the dog was an awful decision on our part. I regret it massively. But it is done. Dog sadly died and isn't being replaced.

I didn't want to ask my dad for money as he really dislikes giving money away and it is something that has caused massive tensions before. But all is resolved with friend now and so we move onwards and upwards.

To what end would be the house passed on, if the area is too rural to get a decent job? Is this grand plan just tying the kids to a (potential maybe) family business and living with their parents forever?
Or are they meant to go and make their way and then give all that up to come home?

I think a large part of the negative responses you've got is down to jealousy. Ultimately youre normal doing your best and i think you should be applauded for trying to keep this going and not just taking the easy route and selling it to move into a 3 bed semi. This is your families history. Id have been gutted if a house like that was in the family and someone just decided to sell without exploring all the options. Just keep swimming op.

Once it is restored is there a way you could make it pay for itself by turning it into a wedding venue. If its too small for a traditional venue there is a going market for boutique style wedding venues.
Make the land pay for itself any way you can.
Approach every organisation you can for grants. This is no longer your home it has to be become a business which supports itself, it is the only way it can survive and not be a millstone to further generations.
If you don't do this it will sink you. Take it from someone who inherited a mill stone with similar conditions although nowhere near as old as yours and it has ruined us in every sense trying to keep up with a deathbed wish.

I think a large part of the negative responses you've got is down to jealousy.

Where's your evidence for that?

Glad you sorted things out with your friend OP and hope things improve for you soon

I think, with the friend, that I would plan something nice but not extravagant as a thank you when you've paid off the final instalment. If she's getting the garden done is there a plant or a garden thing that would be around the £100 mark she might like? That would be thoughtful and appreciative, and you could buy the month after the one where you settle the debt? It's saved a lot of money in interest, after all, and it will show you are really grateful etc and didn't mean to mess her about. These things happen and it sounds like she gets that, so a gesture of thanks might be good.

In terms of the house... I do understand the sense that it's over 300 years of family history, but it's also making your life sound a panicky and stressed and impoverished one. You can't enjoy a lifestyle that your combined earnings would actually have allowed, and nor can your kids. And you're coping with this so that your children can, in their turn, feel that guilty panicked sense that you left it to them for their children and grandchildren. To be brutal, it's a house. It's bricks and mortar. And it is also a millstone. What if they'd rather live in Australia or Paraguay? What if they have a passion for teaching or if their only child is severely disabled? A house such as you describe is as sensible a hobby as a racehorse, and at least with that it's been chosen by the hobbyist. You are binding burdens for the next generation to carry, as far as I can see, just as your ancestors have for you.

I don't see you as someone in pinchy diamond shoes, I'm afraid. I see you as someone in concrete boots.

If you don't do this it will sink you. Take it from someone who inherited a mill stone with similar conditions although nowhere near as old as yours and it has ruined us in every sense trying to keep up with a deathbed wish.

I'm really, really sorry to hear that. I hope things are on the up now.

Other ways to make money

• get planning permission for a dwelling on a plot with "room for a pony" as hyacinth bucket would say and sell it (forget it if you live in a National Park though)
• rent out a small plot for somebody to put polytunnels on (veg in summer, turkeys in winter, indoor early lambing ewes after Christmas)
• if you have very secure farm buildings with decent access for machinery then rent them as workshop space for cars/motorbikes, woodturning, welding
• or just as a secure lockup for stuff
• or overspill storage for a tree surgeon to season firewood for sale
• if slatted sheds then housing for beef cattle or dry dairy heifers over the winter

Your friend is lovely. I think you were right to be completely honest with her, although I would imagine, whatever she says she is still a bit annoyed with you. I also think that, when things are better financially you should treat her massively - next time your dad suggests treating you ask for a spa day for you and take her! (maybe not that exactly...but I think she definitely deserves more than a bottle of wine for being so understanding).

Definitely look at some of the suggestions in this thread - I think even if things do get better financially the hiring out for filming will always be a good option to have available for extra income.

I know you don't want to hear this, but I think you and DP need to sit down and decide exactly how long you give the house a chance to pay for itself, and when you are going to draw a line under it. You know you can't just keep struggling hand-to-mouth forever, particularly when you don't have to. Yes, hopefully it will start making money and everything will be lovely, but I really think you should have a timeframe (say 2-3 years) whereby if you are still struggling you have to consider what is best for you & your DC futures. I know your GP wanted to pass it on for future generations - but they probably envisioned only the positives (the history and heritage, lovely home) not the negatives (possible huge debt, feeling of guilt).

I know this is none of my business but your dad doesn't sound very nice. Yes it's his money and he can do whatever he likes with it (and of course it's lovely that he gives you anything, which he doesn't have to do), but by taking away your choice and only giving you gifts dependent on conditions he is treating you like a child who can't organise her own finances or decide what is better for you and your family. It's almost like he's punishing you for keeping the house rather than selling it like he advised you to - sort of a 'I told you so - you got yourself into this mess now get yourself out of it' attitude. I could be completely wrong of course, I know I don't know your family dynamics.

Nobody's jealous of op's lifestyle, neonrainbow. Don't be silly.

I think once the dust has settled over the current crisis it might be sensible to take a cold hard look at your financial situation and the future of this millstone house.

Not being able to find £2,000 without relying on the goodwill of a friend should be a wake-up call about whether your situation is sustainable.

See a financial advisor, what are you doing about pensions, how would you fund your care when you are elderly be (the value of your property would mean you need to fund your own care) how will your children pay the inheritance tax when they get left the property, which one would you actually leave it and so on?

In your situation I would create a 5 year plan, and if after 5 years you cannot make enough income from the property to look after it properly you need to sell it. If you want to be emotional about it, the house deserves owners who can look after it properly for future generations (just not yours).

I have read the whole thread. I think you have to be pragmatic and systematic.

For starters you need a market valuation of the house and the land in its current condition. Then you need a market valuation of what it could be worth if it were perfect. You have to decide whether it's worth taking out further loans to fund the full renovation works; whether you can fund them over the longer term or if they are a way of maximising the capital value and what you can take out of a sale.

Secondly you need a proper business plan costing your various ideas and with realistic estimates of income over the short, medium and long term. Is it worth going for broke (sorry for pun) to make a success of the business enterprises. Could the business enterprises ever make enough money to repay the loans for renovation and investment in the business as well as providing you with a reasonable standard of living?

Thirdly you can't change the past; you can only change the future and I think you need to think long and hard about what your mum would have wanted for you. Happiness overall and a life as worry free as possible or to be dragged down by an albatross embedded in memory and possibly some unresolved grief. It's tough I imagine to lose your mum when you are six and this is a huge responsibility.

If it's financially viable and the potential value is more than the sweat, blood and tears you might invest to make a worthwhile venture then it's worth hanging on. If the sums don't stack up then probably it's not and at the end of the day your mum would want you and your boys to enjoy life and live it to the full in a way she never could. You can't live your mum's life but she can live on in you and your family and be part of a joyous time as free from worry as possible.

And finally OP, dogs are important and I am sorry about your dog and I bet the kids are too. Get another dog and a modest insurance plan - not many have the space to make it a lifestyle choice. And finally, finally - whatever you do, you aren't beholden to your bloody father.

BeaufortBelle - your post just made me cry. Thank you so much. Especially the stuff about my mum, and my dog. And thank you to the other people who gave me tough, sensible but compassionate advice.

It has all really helped.

You should never have borrowed such a large sum of money from a friend. But, you know that now, and it's done.

And, no, it's not reasonable to expect your father to bail you out, even if he 'can'. You are grown ups living beyond your means, and you borrowed money for something you can't afford. The pet should have been given up or put down if you couldn't afford the medical bills. Or gone on a payment plan with the vet. Yes, harsh, but not the rest of the world's problem to sort out for you.

You may well lose your friend over this, and who could blame her. YOu owe her a sincere apology and have to pay her back, even if it means selling something valuable to do so. Perhaps the new car and buy something less expensive.

You need to sell the house if you can't afford it. It's not a massive betrayal of trust; it's massively insane to let it drive you into poverty. It's not fair to your children. Your grandfather would not want that for you or his grandchildren. (And if would, his wishes aren't worth honouring anyway.)

Well what about a lodger? I don't know where you are but there is always someone who needs temporary accommodation.
It is horrible having people to live with you, as I had au pairs.....but needs must. It could be just until you get straight, which would make the invasion of privacy easier to bear?
If the house is so large then you hopefully wouldn't have to see much of them. We created flats from our extra space. The rules are different regarding letting if it is your own home. An ad will be free on Gumtree. Or Spareroom.com is cheap. Or doctors on the move.com
Be careful though. Get a six month tenancy sorted out, Smiths sell a pack for landlords. Get a three month bank statement, a employer reference and a present landlord reference and a copy of their passport. After that I go on gut feeling and haven't gone wrong as yet.
Your friend needs paying back. She shouldn't have lent you the money. I never lend money. I give it , as in the past lending it with the expectation of getting it back, caused too many problems, such as you describe.

sleep thanks for your thoughts. Unfortunately its going to be a long road out and we may have lost everything including our house in trying save it. If we do come out of it with our house we will be grateful. Unfortunately the millstone had to be sold and receivers were called in.
Don't let it get to that point OP make a business plan, investigate grants, loans etc and be detached about it. If its not viable sell because you don't want either yourselves or a future generation to go through what we did.

Purple daisies aren't you jealous then? I am. Id love a country pile with 70 acres from which to run my own business.