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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to consider lending this money?

374 replies

metalmickie · 07/03/2016 21:05

My partner and I have been together for over 2 years. We don't yet live together. He's planning to buy a house shortly.

I own my own home, am fairly comfortably off, I earn an ok amount but I am lucky to have a fair bit in savings (£33k). My partner has a much better job (although he only started it in the New Year) and some savings, about £10k, but also £8k owed on credit cards etc. To buy a house, he could use his savings, however the mortgage providers have said that they'd take his existing 'debt' into account - and in doing so it would mean he'd only be able to borrow about £40k less (and therefore couldn't afford a property big enough for him and his DC).

So, we talked about it, and if I lend him £20-25k, he will be able to use this as a deposit (having used his own savings to clear the credit cards). His current credit cards have a total limit of £45k, so he would have no problem borrowing back the money thereafter to reimburse me, as soon as the house purchase was completed. His mortgage repayments even if he borrows the maximum he can, will be £200 less than his rent now, so he has no concerns about affording it.

WWYD if you were me?

OP posts:
Ragusa · 09/03/2016 21:26

Sorry, I am not always very clear when dashing things off Blush

personoftheinternet · 09/03/2016 21:38

No OP don't do it.
That's a lot of money. Imo he's earning enough to be able to save the money himself. He just has to wait. He's been financially irresponsible in the past and by the sound of his plans I'd say he's still financially irresponsible now.
Whether or not he believes he can pay you back I think it's a bad idea.
It's a huge risk.

NoSquirrels · 09/03/2016 21:47

Honestly, I think neither of you should enter into this. He may not be a conman, nor even wildly irresponsible with money, but he is certainly NOT a financial whizz, having racked up debt at various different stages of his life - he hasn't really learned his lessons about living within his means and saving for the future, both for rainy days and for predictable expenses. Car trouble is a predictable expense. Redundancy is a rainy day. He should have been prepared for both of these.

This scheme to buy is another symptom of a poor attitude to financial planning, IMVHO.

If he earns c. £50K
His net take-home pay should be somewhere around £3,000 pcm.
He pays £15K a year in rent = £1,250pcm.
He pays £700-800 in maintenance pcm - let's call it £750

So aside from this he has £1,000 a month to pay utilities/other bills/groceries/discretionary & to save or pay down debt.

I'll say again - the most I would be willing to do in this situation is to make a loan of £8K (off the official records for the mortgage) for him to pay down the credit cards and secure his own higher mortgage amount. Don't get involved in his purchase otherwise.

But honestly, if he can't clear that £8K on what he is earning now - and regardless of the fact it's on 0%, he should be saving as much towards it as if he was paying it down aggressively, because it is still debt, as the bank is pointing out by reducing the amount they'd be willing to loan him - then he shouldn't be buying a house now full stop. His own property will cost more money in upkeep than a rental, and if interest rates went up would be a millstone around his neck.

It's nice you want to be a supportive partner in a committed relationship. But it's not sensible to kiss goodbye to your own long-term security in the process.

Hissy · 09/03/2016 21:51

'I could wait a year, but I'm don't see what that would change. I'm unlikely to know him much better than i already do, or for our relationship to change in that time.

That's where you're wrong. Most dodgy people can keep up pretences for a year/2. Abusers for example take on average 2 years to show themselves.

All the legal documents in the world won't make a joy of difference if he does not have the money to pay you back.

Then do I wait another year, or another?. Simple. You don't wait, just don't lend/give him your money. How long will it take you to make that cash again? Seriously?.

In practical terms, given the rise in house prices in the last 12m, by then even with my help he may be priced out of the market.
This is is issue. He can always buy a shared ownership with a Housing association.

Do not give your money away. It won't come back. You will be giving money that belongs to your family away, losing control of your assets and potentially depriving your children.

comingintomyown · 09/03/2016 22:05

I agree with what Nosquirrels said earlier it's not normal to have seen credit ratings , wills and documents relating to his kids inheritance and if you have that process has been contrived

I would not lend him the money

UnderTheGreenwoodTree · 09/03/2016 22:06

Another way to look at it is, you are lending him half his annual gross salary - and that's before tax.

That's a lot to lend. That's why he can't get it from a lender. Plus no job is really safe in this climate - what happens if he loses his job, and can't pay the mortgage?

People are wailing NOOOOOOOO! for a reason.

LeaLeander · 09/03/2016 22:38

'I could wait a year, but I'm don't see what that would change.

Well, if he's such an ace at paying down debt, he'd perhaps get rid of that $8K he owes on credit cards, and get a start on an emergency fund, in a year.

Does he have a fund saved up for car repairs, for example, so he doesn't get in the debt mess again that supposedly was driven by expensive car repairs? (I've operated my own car for more than 30 years and even as a very young woman on a very meagre student income, never had a repair that took more than one or two months to pay off a credit card. It goes back to purchasing cars prudently in the first place with an eye toward future maintenance & parts/labor costs.)

He simply cannot afford the property he wants, on his income, whether or not you lend him this sum. And what sort of consumer frenzy will he go into to furnish and decorate it once he has it?

I'd still be interested to know the ages of the children and why they cannot share a room, or otherwise make do in a 2-bedroom. If he needs to give them their own space, can't he use a sofa bed in the sitting room? Prudent people find workarounds that don't involve purchasing beyond their means.

metalmickie · 09/03/2016 23:33

The car situation was well over 10 years ago (probably more like 15), driven by having an incredibly low income, high living costs (not of his making) and a vicious circle of never being able to buy a car of any decent value, or having to simply write it off due to repairs being too expensive. Not expensive cars none of them, standard Fords/Rovers/Vauxhalls etc but it's the lottery of cheap second hand cars. He has an almost new car now with a lengthy warranty which he paid for from savings (a replacement for his last car, which was similar, and which had got to a point where it's 7yr warranty ended and it made sense to trade it in). Hindsight is a lovely thing, but that situation is pretty well covered now.

There would be no consumer frenzy Hmm; when he moved into his home post separation, he had to purchase everything (furniture, curtains, white goods, crockery, cutlery, toys for his DC) as all he took from the marital home were clothes and personal effects. No need to buy anything additional for the new house as he has everything he needs,

I'm not going to labour over the inheritance, save to say that he's not disinheriting his DC. If he died right now (god forbid), he has £2k of savings, maybe £500 of personal effects at best, and a car. No real assets to speak of, and very little would be left after a funeral and expenses. If he bought a house with my help, and died (again, god forbid) the day after completion, it would make sense for the house to go to me - because I'd have paid the deposit/equity, which was what he meant by saying he'd leave it to me. He's not disinheriting them (there's nothing for them to inherit at present), only making sure that if I did lend him the money, and if the worst happened, that I'd get my money back! Nothing'd been done yet anyway, as without the house purchase there is no need at this point in his life to make a will.

I have already provided for my DC to receive £30k at 21. That's entirely separate to the money I have saved. So I'm not considering squandering any inheritance. Not least because my DC real inheritance is the equity in my home, which is more than 10x more than my savings. I really don't see my DC going without, whatever I do with this £25k.

I have still not decided how to proceed as I don't know enough about the legalities yet. It may be he decides to leave it for now, to establish himself further in his job, see if Brexit produces a fall in house prices, or whatever. What I do know is if I try to imagine the shoe being on the other foot...would I expect him to help me? Not as such. But if that contribution in some form (be it in cash, on an understanding of repayment, or a legal agreement, or buying a share in the house) was absolutely essential to being able to secure a property, and my partner declined to help, I would feel disappointed, and I think it would affect the relationship. Not necessarily fatally, but I think in the long term I'd feel resentful.

I'm also mindful that we want to spend the rest of our lives together (hopefully another 40 years; more realistically given health issues, perhaps 20-25). If I didn't help him now, what would happen? He would save, pay off cards, then add to savings. 5 years from now, when we'd be looking to set up home together, at best I'd think he might have saved another £10k, so £20k in total and paid everything off. Meanwhile I've paid off my mortgage entirely and (if house prices continue to rise) I've then got a house worth maybe £600k. It just seems to me that the financial gulf between us would be even wider and seemingly imsurmountable by then.

OP posts:
MartinaJ · 10/03/2016 03:37

So despite all advice against it, you want to do it. So why did you ask in the first place?

Hissy · 10/03/2016 06:33

A fool and her money will soon be parted...

A real man would not expect you to help.

Do not give him your money. You won't get it back.

molyholy · 10/03/2016 07:04

Why did you come on here for advice?

You had clearly made up your mind before you came onto this board.

you are the one by the way who said this man you have nown for years is leaving nothing to his children and everything to you.

Hissy has summed it up perfectly with A fool and her money will soon be parted

molyholy · 10/03/2016 07:05

*known for 2 years

DoreenLethal · 10/03/2016 07:20

Everyone, including financial experts, is saying 'no'. But you in your infinite wisdom say 'probably'. What on earth could go wrong?

Hissy · 10/03/2016 07:39

I Suggest a name change.

meNtalmickey might still be available ...

FedUpWithJudgementalPeople · 10/03/2016 08:13

Did you not say he had £60k on credit cards at one point?

All from car repairs? That seems implausible, sorry.

Also why did he not just decide to do without a car? Plenty of people use public transport etc.

Also I kind of agree that you knowing about his children's inheritance etc seems slightly contrived.

suzannecaravaggio · 10/03/2016 08:23

Make sure you let us all know how it goes metalmickey!

expatinscotland · 10/03/2016 08:33

You would be an utter fool to loan him a bean, buy 10% with him, etc. You keep looking for 'alternatives'. There aren't any. You are about to chuck out £25k.

'I am relieved by the small minority of posters who have said it might not be the best idea but that the general principle of planning future together, working together to solve this etc is as should be, just that there are better ways of doing it (buying 10% of house, or doing a btl and he rents from me,or similar). I am already looking into these alternatives.

I don't believe he is a scammer. I also don't think he is bad with money. '

You're known him 2 years, and his history speaks for itself.

You keep making excuses.

Hey, it's your money to throw away, because that is exactly what will happen when you loan this to this guy or enter into any agreement to hand over this chunk of money.

expatinscotland · 10/03/2016 08:39

'What I do know is if I try to imagine the shoe being on the other foot...would I expect him to help me? Not as such. But if that contribution in some form (be it in cash, on an understanding of repayment, or a legal agreement, or buying a share in the house) was absolutely essential to being able to secure a property, and my partner declined to help, I would feel disappointed, and I think it would affect the relationship. Not necessarily fatally, but I think in the long term I'd feel resentful. '

You would seriously expect a partner of two years to help you buy a property, rather than doing it like an adult under your own steam and buying what you could afford? For real?

I wouldn't even expect that of my own family, much less ask.

I would be fucking embarrassed for myself that I was that irresponsible and stupid with money at that age rather than looking for someone to bail me out and buy me the property of my dreams.

He has a lot of options: he can buy a one bed or bedsit as an investment and let it out, cut way back and save on his own, take on other work and save more, etc.

Instead he tries to leech off someone else?

That's fucking pathetic.

Twirlywoooo · 10/03/2016 08:50

Hell no! Are you so cockblind that you can't see how this is a bad idea?

'A fool and their money are soon parted' comes to mind.

expatinscotland · 10/03/2016 09:08

cockblind - I love it!!!

AliceInUnderpants · 10/03/2016 09:09

5 years from now, when we'd be looking to set up home together, at best I'd think he might have saved another £10k

Okay, so by that logic, you loan him £25K which takes him 12 1/2 years minimum to pay you back - not straight after completion??

He is playing you for the fool you are.

suzannecaravaggio · 10/03/2016 09:13

Cockblind
😂

metalmickie · 10/03/2016 09:20

If i was a fool i wouldn't be in quite the financial position I am, would I? Smile

I knew about his children's inheritance long ago, as it was mentioned in his divorce which was going through when we first met.

The debts he accrued were for various reasons, I've already explained that upthread. And that he paid thrm off in full without any help.

He couldn't afford a buy to let, as he still has to house himself and his DC. Unless he moved n with me, which a explained wouldn't work.

I'm going to speak to one of y closest friends,and take some proper legal and financial advice before proceeding further

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 10/03/2016 09:23

Okay. 'MNers what do you think?' The vast majority, 'Very stupid, cockblind, foolish.'

OP: 'I'm going to do it anyway.'

So, off you go.

And yeah, you're a fool to even think about it, much less hand it over.

Cockblind, indeed.

LineyReborn · 10/03/2016 09:27

If he has to house his children as well as himself he can apply to the trustees of his children's trust for the additional costs of enabling that. Plus a contribution towards a car to drive them around.

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