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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To request mumsnet to add a 'polyamorous families' section under parenting?

868 replies

whycantwegoonasthree · 05/03/2016 15:28

There's every other kind of family type, pretty much, and polyamorous families have some unique joys and challenges that it would be nice to share and discuss.

Or maybe we're the last frontier and even MN aren't ready to go there.

Yet.

OP posts:
phequer · 10/03/2016 07:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Roussette · 10/03/2016 07:54

I am late to this thread but I have read most of it. I went to post the other day then real life took over. I have an opinion on your relationship why and it probably won't go down well. However, having lived a bit and known some very very different relationships to the norm, I feel I'm competent enough to comment. I do apologise if I've got some facts slightly wrong, it's a long thread!

Poly or not poly.... to my mind it isn't. I think you have labelled it a poly relationship because you are friendly with the OSO and she is cool with your relationship as far as her DH is concerned. (having said that I would love her take on it!)

I know that paragraph above means you probably don't won't to read any further because you have had a kicking on here but bear with me...

The length of this relationship is short. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) you have known him for 3 years and he's been staying over for a year when your DCs aren't there. At the moment, that is all it is, despite your friendship with OSO and despite your protestations otherwise. This guy is a friend, a man who stops over in your house when your DCs are with their Dad, someone you have sex with, someone who puts a shelf up to help you, someone who you want in your life and vice versa, someone you have a connection with. That's basically it!

To label it poly and to mix finances has really fucked this up. Because of that you feel compelled to fess up to your exDH and your kids. Why? It's early days for any sort of relationship - one year of him staying at your house etc and if this were some LDR with a guy you'd met, I am sure posters would be saying don't hurry it, take your time, no need to tell your ExDH, none of his business etc.

However, your desire to make this all official by calling it a poly relationship has forced the issue. The finances are madness, no idea why you would do that, you are contributing to their house and vice versa? What is the point of that, why not protect yours and your DCs interests and keep it seperate?

Personally, I think you should backtrack a bit, call this guy a friend you see, lighten it up, ditch the financial stuff, not have him stay quite so much, and keep schtum for the time being.

This is my take on it all which may or may not go down well. Sometimes a new posters opinion can throw up something new or sometimes it just regurgitates what has been said before. Apologies if the latter.

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 10/03/2016 12:13

I agree with Rousette

It is all rather screwed up.

It's either a proper serious relationship or it isn't. I say it isn't and shouldn't be treated as such. Why the financial entanglement and seeing yourself as family when your kids don't even know him? That's wrong. Very wrong and very stupid.

On the other hand there is no reason (other than the stupidity of financial entanglement making you think you're a family) for your kids to know. If you want to carry on having two separate lives go for it,but don't call it family and entangle yourself in a serious manner.

Why tell your kids? What will that teach them? I don't care if I get a flaming to be honest, but I'd want my child growing up with a sense of morals and standards and a good idea about relationships, not some weird ass cheating shit!

whycantwegoonasthree · 11/03/2016 18:20

It's a relationship of three years standing. We've known each other longer still. I'd say that's pretty serious in most people's book. Certainly in mine.

DP will be introduced to my children - because that's what happens when you intend to spend your life with someone. The fact it's a poly relationship doesn't change that, or mean it should be hidden away or limited I that respect.

It just means there are more questions to be asked and things to be considered first.

As for 'I'd want my child growing up with a sense of morals and standards and a good idea about relationships, not some weird ass cheating shit!'

And I'd be careful having those judgey pants hooked quite that high. You might choke on the elastic.

You sound like Hyacinth Bucket.

OP posts:
whycantwegoonasthree · 11/03/2016 18:46

Phequer. It's really not about EXH approval or disapproval. It is about ensuring 99.9% that he cannot remove my children from me.

He's threatened to do so before on the pretext of my 'mental instability' (by which he means the PND and PTSD I had in the year following DC1s birth - from which I have not suffered since) but which is really about the fact I do not share his (extreme) faith, and he believes, therefore, himself to be the better parent, because y'know God says so.

And God forbid the DCs ever get the chance to hear a different faith perspective and make up their own minds.

So yes, that side of things takes up a fair it if head space when making future plans.

Dealing with arseholes, and fanatical arseholes in particular, usually does.

OP posts:
phequer · 11/03/2016 19:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

phequer · 11/03/2016 19:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

notonyurjellybellynelly · 11/03/2016 19:33

You sound like Hyacinth Bucket

Now you really have gone too far Shock

Hyacinth would know nothing about the like of these goings on.

whycantwegoonasthree · 11/03/2016 19:41

Phequer, you've been helpful and given me food for thought.

It's not about saying 'Fuck you' to EXH or volunteering anything that I don't have to.

It's simply that DP knows of the existence of the person who is now DP (we met via work) so once the children are introduced, EXH will join the dots.

At which point EXH will ask if DP is still married, which gives me the option of a) saying little/nothing and EXH will probably assume we're having an affair or b) tell him the actual situation and EXH will assume kinky amorality.

Either way he will most likely seek to remove the children (again).

So you can see why:

a) the children have not yet been told and

b) why a poly board might be useful to discuss problems such as this.

OP posts:
phequer · 11/03/2016 20:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

whycantwegoonasthree · 11/03/2016 21:10

"Daddy, Mummy has a new friend, his name is X. She asked if we'd like to meet him..."

EXH joins dots, and we're at DefCon1.

OP posts:
almondpudding · 11/03/2016 21:28

Can't believe this thread is still going.

Did a poly thread ever get started in the end?

whycantwegoonasthree · 11/03/2016 21:38

Still waiting on a reply from MNHQ Almond re: board. If it's a 'no' then I'll start a thread.

OP posts:
ApplePaltrow · 12/03/2016 00:21

Is this really what you want to model for your kids? Being someone's bit on the side?

You need to get a life. I don't mean that flippantly. I mean, really get one. All the time you are spending on the side of this man's marriage... when this ends, you'll have nothing. They'll have each other. And you'll have wasted all this time that you could have spent building a life centered around you and your own children with a new man of your own.

notonyurjellybellynelly · 12/03/2016 03:40

Either way he will most likely seek to remove the children (again)

Does he have justifiable grounds for trying to get custody of the children?

Could it be seen that your current circumstances are enough for someone to sit up and say - ah this bloke has a case to make?

whycantwegoonasthree · 12/03/2016 08:41

Right Apple. I'd have nothing without DP. Well...

Aside from two glorious, kind, brilliant children. My own, successful business which also happens to be doing something I love and am passionate about. And my long-lasting and very dear best friends who have stuck beside each other through thick and thin for 20 and 30 years. And my social life. And my hobbies. And a Mum who loves and supports me. And my own home - which I can run and keep without any help from anyone. And my independence.

If that's 'nothing', then nothing sounds pretty good to me.

OP posts:
whycantwegoonasthree · 12/03/2016 08:47

Nothing was what I had when my first, oh so normal marriage broke down. The socially acceptable one to a man who kept me isolated and dependent and who sought to take everything from me when I decided not to put up with it any more.

That looked a lot more like nothing than any future scenario I can now imagine, with or without DP and OSO.

OP posts:
IWasHereBeforeTheHack · 12/03/2016 09:20

This has been the most interesting thread I have ever read. I love MN for giving me glimpses into lives which are so different to my own. (I lead a sheltered life.)

It seems that your marriage was such a bad experience that being someone else's 'bit on the side' as Apple described it, is preferable. I hope that, in time, you will come to see that you deserve better than that. So far, neither of the significant men in your life has treated you with respect, and I think that has led to you putting up with being your DP's second best. In future, maybe you will decide to do without a man at all (and why not?) or maybe you will find a man who treats you with the respect you deserve, and not one who expects you to share him with another woman.

I am very glad to hear that you have success and support in other areas of your life. If your EXH is as unpleasant as you describe, you will need all the support you can get.

Mummylin · 12/03/2016 10:50

I would like to hear the " wife's" view of this situation. Is she really as happy as you say she is, is she willing to accept anything rather than lose the person she loves ?

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 12/03/2016 11:09

Why how can it be a serious relationship when it will NEVER go anywhere? You're just a bit on the side. He is married and has a family. You will never have more than you have now -him staying over a couple of times a week.

Nice lifeHmm

whycantwegoonasthree · 12/03/2016 12:12

Here are a few thoughts – because, contrary to many people's assumptions this isn't a situation I stumbled into in some weakened addled state fleeing a terrible marriage. I worked hard on myself in order to leave that situation, and after leaving to make sure I had worked through all the stuff I needed to.

Apologies if this is long, Brew but I want to address a few recurring themes, directly and clearly.

1 – The if you're looking to engineer a setup in which abuse of power, coercion and fostering of dependency to the detriment of the most vulnerable you couldn't do much better than a modern stereotypical monogamous marriage. In generations gone by marriages usually existed with a context of a close knit social and familial community, where people were held accountable to others who were intimately involved in their everyday lives – extended families, close knit villages etc. These days so many marriages exist in large part isolation – we live away from our families, in our little nuclear bubbles, and often nobody really knows what goes on. The perfect conditions for abusers to do their worst, almost invisible to the outside world.

2 – In any kind of setup where more than two people are involved you automatically have other people who hold you accountable for your behaviour within your relationships. I'm I'm a shit to DP, OSO will call me on it. If I'm unfair to OSO, DP will call me on it. If either of them are unkind to me they will be called on it. If they are unkind to each other, I will call them on it. We sit down, the three of us, every month over afternoon tea and sometimes a long walk and we look at what's working and not. If someone needs something they're not getting we talk about it and see if we can find a better way of doing things. If someone is finding something difficult, we talk about it. It's not for everyone, I know, but for us it's a very healthy, open and deliberate way of going about constructing a relationship structure which works for all the people in it.

3 – People seem to assume that everyone wants a 24/7 relationship with a single person who meets all their emotional, physical, intellectual needs. There's nothing wrong with that if it's what works for you. But it's never been something that I wanted – I lived alone, happily for five years before I got married, and loved it. I had deep reservations about sharing my space with another person 24/7, but went along with what was 'expected' – against my better judgement (and lived to regret it). DP and OSO have had an open relationship almost from the get go. They never felt the need or desire to just be the two of them, and while that's taken a number of forms over the years, from swinging to the relationship the three of us are in now, they've always taken the view that we are enriched by the people in our lives, and there was no need, for them, to draw some kind of line around the form that can take, between friendship and sexuality, for example, or to restrict the intimacy that other relationships can have. Monogamy works for a lot of people, but it's not for me, and it's never been for DP and OSO.

4 – 'It will never GO anywhere' is a recurring theme. Like there's some ultimate destination for relationship and a single track to get there. (The relationship 'escalator' is often how it's referred to in books on non-standard relationships.) Thing is, I'm not trying to 'get' anywhere other than to seek to be the best version of myself that I can be for the people I love. I have as much time with DP and OSO as I want or need. I thoroughly enjoy the time I spend with them individually and together. I have time on my own, which I need and enjoy. I have wonderful dedicated time with my children where my focus is 100% on them. I spend time with my friends. I have a fulfilling career, financial independence and material and emotional security. Where or what exactly should I be aiming for? If I need more than I'm getting in my current relationship I can seek to adjust the way my current relationship operates, or I can seek another relationship to add to it – and we all have the agreed freedom to do that. But at the moment, the only thing I wish to have beyond what I currently do is the ability to have all the people I love free to spend time together if they choose to. (And I'm working hard to create the circumstances where that can happen.) The destination people have in mind seems to be a mono-normative nuclear arrangement, and quite simply, and it's not somewhere I'm interested in going.

5 – The other pervasive idea is that I just haven't met the right man, and if/when I did I would want all that. But I'm in my forties. I've had several of those kinds of relationships over the years (largely because I didn't think there was an alternative) with some amazing people, some less than amazing people. And simply put, I don't think there's a man (or woman) in the world who could make a that relationship model fit me. It just doesn't.
Equally I'm not saying that poly is 'better' than monogamy or that it's for everyone or even most people. Some people like and want and need that single person, always around, to the exclusion of all others. Most, perhaps. But some of us just don't like, want or need that.

I'm not being 'short changed'. I don't 'deserve better'. I have the kind of relationship I want with people who I enjoy spending time with in many different ways. I'm happy, they're happy. It's only people outside of the relationship who don't know us who aren't. Those who spend time with the three of us, namely close friends and extended family – even those who didn't understand it or perhaps approve initially – can see we're happy together and good for each other.

I spoke to OSO on Thursday night - the three of us were out together learning about cocktails and having dinner – about this thread. She's not interested in contributing directly – she's not an online person – but having made sure that I wasn't being unduly upset by some of the things being said, thought I should continue to answer questions as they arise. Because the biggest challenge we, and others like us, face, is the judgements and hostility of people who don't understand the way we've chosen to live our lives but think they do, and have a right to pass judgement and make all sorts of assumptions about it on that basis. And to talk about it openly, to answer questions and challenges as they are put to me, might in some small way contribute to changing that. Eventually. So that, for example, a woman might not fear losing custody of her children by the simple fact of being involved in a poly relationship.

She assures you all that she's quite happy, and finds it amusing that so many of you would be happier with our set up if she and I were fucking each other too, but to say sorry, she's tried that in the past, and discovered that she's 100% straight.

Sorry, this was REALLY long. Blush Brew

OP posts:
Roussette · 12/03/2016 13:08

I do find this thread interesting and wonder if I'm just staid/closed book/old fashioned/boring etc etc.

I think it's fine to have this model of a relationship because after all, OSO is happy with you shagging her husband (and more I know) so there's no problem there, you're all adult ... but is he really a DP? DP is darling partner, he isn't your darling partner, he is at most half a one because you are sharing him with another woman.

I am not decrying what you have, live and let live and all that, I just think there is far more potential for things to go wrong. Putting the children to one side, if it were me I would be fast forwarding to old age and thinking what might I end up with? What if OSO wants her DH to herself as she gets older, we mellow with age, we also want things simple and straightforward. When all your kids are independent adults, what might the situation be like then, you might end up lonely with not much. At the moment you are convinced this man will do the right thing by you, but people change over the years and you have invested a lot emotionally and financially into this and when you're 65 what have you got? It could be not a lot. OSO might, when she is older, just want her DH to herself, she is after all married to him, her prerogative and she holds the upper hand.

This might be fine for you now but I would be worried about the future to be honest.

With regard to your EXH, if he has 'extreme' faith, I would think you have a huge fight on your hands. Sorry that probably doesn't help.

IrenetheQuaint · 12/03/2016 13:20

Lots of relationships change or go tits up with age, though... I don't think that's a reason for ditching an arrangement that is working very well now (barring the potential XP situation and the children's ignorance of the whole thing).

Roussette · 12/03/2016 13:24

I agree, yes they do, but the OP has no security. She isn't married to this guy, she has emotionally and financially invested into someone else's marriage.

Mummylin · 12/03/2016 13:31

I thought that most people would want their Dh/ DP for 100% of the time, not 50% when he is off sleeping with another woman. And we only have your word that she is happy with the situation.
I think you are deluding yourself.

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