Sex trade and Jeremy Corbyn. So U?

[awfullyproper]

He said:
Let’s do things a bit differently and in a more civilised way,”
Surely decriminalisation is so imbalanced in favour of the people who run the 'industry' or patronise it. I cannot get beyond the casual attitude to the commodification of (mostly) women.
What do others think?

Cleaty where are you getting your numbers from?

From women who used to be prostitutes and now work to provide support to those still in prostitution.

These discussions always end up looking at the tiny minority of women in prostitution who say everything is fine. If that is true, that is fine. But I am concerned about all those women who are routinely exploited, raped and abused. That is who we need to be talking about.

Hmmm, that's not very scientific Cleaty, sounds more like opinion than fact to me.

Sure it is not based on an academic research project. But those women are in contact with the women and men regularly involved in prostitution, so actually I think it will be pretty accurate.
There may be some women who a couple of times a year get involved in prostitution to get some extra money.

I am also always specific about talking about prostitution. I have met too many "sex workers" who when you ask them are actually photographers, worked in a sex chat line for a few months, or did some pole dancing for a short while. Obviously there are links between different activities in the sex industry, but there is a difference between prostitution and taking photos.

No I did not say that. I said 99% of women in my City take class A drugs. Very different to what you said.

And unlike some, I know lots of women in prostitution or who have been in prostitution. I know the reality. Unlike someone like Belle Du Jour who has said she worked alone and never met another woman in prostitution when she was involved.

There are ordinary indoor sex workers nearly everywhere in Britain. (not in the Scottish Highlands and Islands, I've noticed).

It's not "high class" or unusual to work from a private flat earning £100-£200 an hour. I personally know lots of these women. All over the country. They're not drug addicts.

I did not say they were all drug addicts. Not everyone who uses class A drugs is a drug addict.

If you know lots of women in prostitution and pro sex work, we have probably met.

Lots of ordinary people take coke a couple of times a year. So are we talking about vulnerable addicts forced to sell sex to support a habit or not?

You say that you've met prostitutes via some sort of outreach that seeks to help women who want to leave? Then you are not meeting a random sample.

And since I don't access these services, it's very unlikely that we have met.

No I have said I know women in prostitution through a variety of ways, and through an outreach service.

If you appear at places talking against the Nordic Model, we will have met or I will at least know who you are. It is a pretty small group of women involved, and I do know you all.

And i have already said that many women in prostitution use drugs to cope with what they are having to bare. You are presenting a false dichotomy between drug addicts and using a few times a year. If you really do know lots of women in prostitution you will also know that the situation is far more nuanced than that for many.

I agree with him and while we're at it decrimilise drugs. The war will never be one on either the way it's going. Time for a different approach.

Like Amsterdam? The criminal gangs simply moved in and had a ball. And now Amsterdam are tightening up their laws.

Cleaty I do wonder in all these stats how you know what goes on behind suburban front doors. Y' know the woman who has a friend with benefits who gives her 100 a week towards her bills when he pops round. I grew up in a naice area and my brother's best friends mum when he was at primary school had several men friends who kept her. I doubt either of these women would have turned up to your outreach centre, neither would identify as prostitutes either. It just isn't that black and white. Presumably you are meeting the ones who at the very least feel vulnerable, the others wouldn't go within a mile of you.

You are derailing this from women who are involved regularly in prostitution, to a woman who has sex with 1 man and gets money for it. Yes it is a form of prostitution but is more commonly called being a mistress.

No, you are the one derailing by defining prostitution in the way that suits your argument. You cant define an individual's occupation by the hours that they work.

Legislation or deregulation will make no difference to a woman who is a mistress. It is a derail.

If paying for sex is illegal then it is illegal. The mother of my brother's friend was a prostitute under anyone's definition. She as I said had several men friends aka regular customers. Legislation could easily lead to neighbours reporting just like a woman who rents a flat.

Okay derail away. Are you the women who argues that her elderly disabled mother could be prosecuted as living off immoral earnings?

I don't go around speaking at conferences or anything like that. I'm not an activist.

I know a lot of other independent sex workers through networking amongst ourselves... Sharing flats, exchanging information on good places to work, sharing phone numbers of undesirables to avoid. I travel all over Britain to work, as well as work in my home city flat. I meet other prostitutes for coffee and a gossip, etc.

Cleaty, you said that 99% of the prostitutes in your city "are on class A drugs." Then you backpedalled and said they weren't all drug addicts. Well, if someone is a recreational user on occasion, then that's beside the point. You implied that they all take drugs to cope (or else prostitute to get drugs.) You simply can't know that.

It's impossible to get a representative sample of prostitutes. Many of us never come into contact with organisations that would gather data.

The point is women using class A drugs to cope. This is not the same as being a drug addict.

I have used alcohol in the past to cope, and not been an alcoholic.

cleaty- you can't just make up a number and then say it is fact. you sound ridiculous arguing the point now

Hi! Current sex worker here too. I was abused as a child but am degree educated, had a good job and entered prostitution at 26 after mental health issues. I'm also a mother. I have taken class A drugs but never with a punter (or before seeing one). I still fully support decrim. I can't link on this phone but there is a great TED talk by Toni Mac called What do sex workers want? That is well worth viewing if you can.

There is also a lot of mixing up of decrim and legalisation on this forum. They are different things and the talk I mentioned does explain. Anybody that can link is much appreciated.

Bill your posts are amazing

cleaty your anecdotes don't fit with mine. And that is the problem with anecdotes, there's no proof. I support decrim and work as a prostitute. I hate prostitution and want it gone but I want women to be safe and decrim is the best way to do that. Please listen to those in the sex industry, no other workers would be ignored in discussions on their jobs. We need to be listened to as well.