to hell with the skinny police

[HowBadIsThisPlease]

I'm size 16 (big, at 5'4")

So is my mum. My mum has been bigger (I think) but I reckon she has been a size 16 for about 20 years.

She is 73. She swims, gardens, walks, runs a little business, is absolutely brilliant at minding small children, she sews, she cooks a lot, travels a lot, checks in on anyone around who has an illness or a problem, and entertains fabulously. She is never ill, never has a sleepless night, has health checks when they are offered on the NHS and they never throw up anything to worry about.

I have worried about my weight my whole life, and yo yo dieted constantly, and had on-off eating disorders. I have hidden from taking part in things I might have enjoyed because I will be seen to be too fat while doing them. I have fainted, cried, and had horrific anxiety attacks while under the influence of hunger. I've then reacted against that and had horribly unenjoyable bouts of overeating.

I am sick to death of it. fuck that noise. I am going to wake up tomorrow and change my life. I am going to eat three good meals a day, consisting of lots of vegetables, along with any other damn thing I want to eat. I am going to avoid alcohol, white bread, refined sugar (except as very special treats), and other than that I am going to eat ANYTHING I WANT.

I doubt I will put on weight but if I do I don't give a fuck. There are no fucks left in my heart to give about this. I have reached peak fatness-fucks. I am scanning the horizon with an extremely powerful telescope and THERE ARE NO FUCKS. I don't CARE. I have HAD ENOUGH.

If anyone bleats at me about "health" and "obesity" I will play a little movie in my head of a pissed, 8 stone, desperately miserable person vomiting into a toilet and then mentally give the bleater a MASSIVE kick up the arse (like Father Ted and Bishop Brennon). then I will laugh and get on with my life.

Does anyone want to join me?

Since we're on the subject of make-up, surely "too much" make-up is entirely subjective? Presumably the person wearing it felt it was just the right amount.
It might not be a look I care for, but it's their face not mine so on that basis their opinion carries far more weight.
Equally if I was out with no make-up, I'd expect similar tolerance.

Can I just say for I think the 4th time, for those that haven't read the whole thread, that the OP clarified she was talking about herself at 8 stone, not people in general?
I kind of got that from the original post, although it was obviously ambiguous as many people didn't, but she did clarity further down.
I got it because I used to the 7/8/whatever stone person with the eating disorder, and I know what it's like to have to live your entire life with eating that is disordered, so I can totally see where she is coming from.

ToastDemon, I posted this (though I say it myself, helpful suggestion ) on the 2nd page : "Why don't you ask MN HQ if you can reword your opening post, otherwise you are going to get every other poster berating you for skinny shaming? (we can't expect everyone to rtft - especially when it gets beyond a certain number of pages)"

But OP elected not to.

Tbh I find it irritating when people write ambiguous posts or thread titles then get irascible when they are misinterpreted. I think if they get misinterpreted then they should handle this with good grace

That's a fair point hmc that was indeed a helpful suggestion

OP - I completely agree with you, the only thing that shreds for me when dieting is my self esteem. Focusing on eating normal amounts of relatively healthy stuff, getting a bit of exercise everyday and more importantly looking after yourself in whatever way that makes you feel good is the way to go. I stopped dieting three years ago, learnt to cook and took up yoga (look up yoga with Adrienne on YouTube if you want to try - her classes are a lot about "finding what feels good"). I have not lost much weight, but I feel damm good!

Thanks Toast

toastdemon If we were living in an equal society and feminism no longer had a need to exist then I would agree with you - all levels of self decoration are equal.

The problem is that we don't yet live in that utopia.

Someone with no make up on is sending a message to children that it is okay to accept yourself as you are, that you don't need to spend your time and money changing yourself to fit in with anybody else's expectations.

People wearing a lot of make up are sending the opposite message to children. That you do need to change yourself to fit with the cosmetics industry ideal (which is unachievable because you would stop buying their shit if it was achievable) and buy into the perceived need to change or 'improve' yourself.

One of these messages is increasing rates of childhood body confidence issues and childhood cosmetic surgery...and the other one isn't.

So for me they are not equally valid or moral messages to send to our children, but in an truly equal society they would indeed carry no morality burden at all.

I'm 29 but what about the people who grew up in the 60's when twiggy was idolised. Was she a good role model? No but she was what people
aspired to look like.

Why did Victorian women wear painful corsets daily unless it was to improve the way they look

There has always been the desire to look good through the ages.

It's just human nature.
We are all attracted to nice things

Anyone who lets themselves become obese has given up, but it's never to late to lose weight and improve things

I think make up, getting your hair dyed, losing weight. It all bleeds into each other but it's all part of looking good and wanting to feel good about ourselves

Why is there such a thing as plastic surgery? It was to help people appear normal again after trauma.

In cases of acid attack victims they go through years of surgeries to look more attractive again

If they said f that and f the attractiveness police no one would blame them, but most of them don't

It's human nature to want to be the best version of oneself but being only human there are those of us addicted to food/alcohol/drugs and make excuses for not trying anymore

mum there is indeed an element of human nature involved...but the cosmetics industry have taken that small element and blown it up with the use of billions of pounds worth of advertising into a monster that is destroying the mental health of children.

It is human nature to feel more sexual attraction for certain types of appearance than others.

It is isn't human nature for children to hate their bodies so deeply that they will resort to chopping them up in the hopes it will make them happy.

That is a created experience the blame for which lies with a linear combination of the cosmetics industry, government (for failing to reign in the cosmetics industry) and normal people in society for buying into this batshit bullshit.

I was with you, up until you turned into a skinny shaming arsehole.

Quite frankly you sound like the kind of person who on a daily basis changes their stance on their weight. One minute you're empowered, ready to not give a flying fuck that you're "fat" and the next minute you'll be crying into a bowl of ice cream wondering why you just can't shift the pounds and get rid of that belly.

If you're going to love yourself the way you are, and have the stance you had up until paragraph 7, then don't make it all about plus size women and certainly don't skinny shame. That's counter intuitive and makes you should like an ass.

She was talking about herself in paragraph 7 ThorsLady.
Something she has clarified again & again throughout the thread.

There are some really pleasant posts on this thread it so nice to be assured that women really do hate other women so much.

Thorslady there is some truth in what you are saying. I've lost count of the number of people that claim they were happy being big and screw what anyone else thinks, then they lose weight and admit it was a front and they were in fact desperately unhappy being overweight.

I'm just saying it's not a recent thing, the Egyptians wore make up

Victorian teenage girls wore corsets

It's just life it's not going to change anytime soon

We buy flowers because we like to look at them and how they smell

We don't buy plants like cactuses en masse because they aren't an attractive plant

We like attentive things

I think woman do judge other woman more so than men, woman have the tendency to be bitchy and there is no escaping it

Shame we can't all be nice to each other but it's like sibling rivalry, people get jealous and bitter and say mean things

Can't count how many times I've heard comments from other mums at baby group to the overweight mums about losing baby weight even from themselves.

The pressure is there, always has been and won't be going away... even if it does impact our children

It will have impacted the previous generation's children as well and there seems to be no way to stop it unless we home school and become recluses.

Being slim isn't the be all end all but it's more about making an effort to feel and look good

So many actresses are truly talented but they have to starve and exercise every day

Even Helen mirren exercises regularly, dyes her hair and makes an effort to look good because If she said f that she wouldn't get any more acting work

All the fat actresses have to be funny there are no other roles for them in Hollywood

We don't buy plants like cactuses en masse because they aren't an attractive plant

I buy cacti - they suit the modernist aesthetic of my home!

Mum, we get it. We're all aware of the societal expectations and norms which make people, especially women, feel that they have to look a certain way to be lovable or valuable or worth employing. The question is, do you feel that way? Because you don't have to.

And looking good doesn't necessarily equal feeling good. As an example, I have an anxiety disorder and when it's kicking off I can eat very little because I feel sick all the time. I lose loads of weight. People tell me I look great. I want to punch them, because I might look 'great' but I feel like shit. Similarly, the OP talks about being bulimic, as I once was. No doubt at 8 stone, people told her she looked good. They did me. But again, that exterior hides immense pain.

I would rather be overweight and mentally healthy. Any day. I'm not saying I'd be happy if I were morbidly obese but I don't really give a fuck if I'm a bit bigger than what society deems beautiful. Don't let yourself be dragged into it blindly.

Agent
Mental health issues aside please. That's a whole other ballgame and I'm sure there are specific forums for those suffering from poor mental health

Sorry, what?! We're not supposed to discuss mental health on a thread that's in part about low self esteem and disordered eating, which are mental health issues? Women's relationships to their physical appearances occupy a massive section of mental ill-health discourse.

Seriously, that's an insultingly stupid thing to say.

Mental health has a huge bearing on weight and self-perception.
Perhaps the biggest impact of all!

Mental Heath wasn't mentioned in the original post she was talking bout about weight issues and saying she doesn't care what people think

It's such a dark subject, no one really wants to read yet another thread on depression. It's a first world problem

It's about whether saying f that really works or not and I think it doesn't

You can have a mental health issue and still be slim and look normal and not be judged by society

You can't be obese and not get judged by society for letting yourself go

It's such a dark subject, no one really wants to read yet another thread on depression. It's a first world problem

What in the actual fuck?!

She mentioned bulimia, which is a mental health issue. You yourself claimed that 'not looking after' your physical appearance is a 'sign of depression.' Not provoked by anyone else making comment on mental health.

Would you like to retract that comment, given that this is no such place for it?

It's such a dark subject, no one really wants to read yet another thread on depression. It's a first world problem

Oh ok then.

If she's a size 16 and short, I think that alone suggests she is no longer suffering from bulimia but Obesity

She didn't mention that she's overweight because of mental health

Funnily enough in 3rd world countries where there is little food and they have to walk miles to collect water and marry young and endure fgm, there are not so many people with the luxury of free time to feel depressed or anxious or waffle on and on about it

In 3rd world countries people just have to get on with things

Seriously?? I'm from a third-world country and there's a high suicide rate and growing levels of obesity.
And plenty of people have the luxury of time, what with the unemployment rates.

Funnily enough in 3rd world countries where there is little food and they have to walk miles to collect water and marry young and endure fgm, there are not so many people with the luxury of free time to feel depressed or anxious or waffle on and on about it

Where's this info from? You think there's no PTSD in Somalia or Libya or in refugee camps? That young girls' mental health isn't affected by FGM? That the reason we don't hear about mental health issues in Eritrea isn't because it doesn't happen but because medical care is so poor that we don't get statistics of who seeks help for mental illness, if anybody even has the means to?

Though this is beside the point. Nobody said the OP continues to be bulimic, nor did she.

Well done, Mum, mental illness shaming and making excuses for the toxic elements of society that reduce women to what they put in/on their body all in one thread. I don't think I've ever seen the like on MN.

Icebeing I do think that's a good point about the current inequalities in society and women's role being supposedly to look decorative. I completely agree with you.

I was more getting at the kind of bitchy "oh look at the kip of her" kind of judgements that some people make (and I've seen it on here quite a bit recently) as they think they are some sort of style police and arbitrar of good taste.