is this way too much for an 8 year old??

[hugsarealwaysneededhere1]

Son is learning guitar and vilion at school with some practise (not enough I'm sure) at home.
He goes to Cubs once a week
Fencing once a week.
Life Guarding once a week

At the weekend he has a swimming lesson and tennis.

He loves guitar, cubs and fencing. He is a good swimmer but now needs to stop lessons and either join the squad (train 3 times a week) or just swim once a week as part of a fun junior team. He would rather just play than swim seriously.

It all feels quite a lot! With homework too.......or is this just the norm??

The world by Twinklestein would be a very scary place indeed.

The level of insight he/she seems to have into other people's children is staggering. A one size fits all.

Note for us layman parents of children pursuing music: it is far more fulfilling to be able to be involved in concertos, symphonies, chamber music than stuck on scales and The Two Grenadiers. No shit sherlock. (Unless you are that freak person that loves scales...sorry!)

He loves busking and playing and singing in a band is the same as scales and The Two Grenadiers. Glorious.

My 8yr old DS wild be exhausted!
He does football at lunchtime at school on a Monday.
Football development squad Monday evening 6-7pm
Football training for a team Friday 5-6pm
Matches Sunday approx 1hr

That is plenty for all of us! Luckily he has no interest in anything other than football!

Hugely interesting thread for me. My almost 8yp does swimming and rugby at the weekend, Beavers and school Lego club during the week. I'd love to add music in but I have 2 younger children and I couldn't do this amount with them as well - my 5yo already does swimming and gym and my toddler hasn't even started yet it's proving tricky to manage it all.

Plus DS learns loads at home just by having time to be bored and having to think up stuff to do - currently doing a lot of self-initiated learning about the world by reading the atlas and hand drawing maps of various countries. More activities would actually make him lose some of that self-reliance I think.

He was away at grandparents over half term and lots of activities were scheduled in - when I asked at the end of the week how it was thinking he'd say "amazing". But he said he missed just having relaxing time. Despite claiming he's bored a lot, it seems he clearly actually appreciates that time. It's made me resolve not to add activities unless he desperately wants to do them.

Different children need different things - some prefer organised activity, some prefer freedom - but I don't think they ever lose out by having more free time if that's what you think is needed.

Twinkle: it is a lot more enjoyable for you To be able to play something well rather than adequately/scraped through, and it s you who has an issue with feelings of inadequacy or inferiority.

I have been perfectly happy, at various times and in various settings, picking up an entirely new instrument and (being able to read music, and knowing the vaguest of references for the instrument) working my way through a piece, with others, purely for fun. Indeed, at school, a group of us would regularly swap instruments and 'have a go' at a piece of music we rustled up from somewhere. Or at a teenage party, after a few drinks, we would gather round and attempt various piano duets/trios (note I have never had a piano lesson in my life) with much ensuing hilarity. (NB, that is not all I got up to at teenage parties )

The fun was in the trying, and in the (for the most part) getting by by the seat of our pants.

An entirely different type of fun and enjoyment was had when we played those same pieces on our 'proper' instruments.

Similarly at university, I 'filled in' more than once for friends with a band. Usually on guitar, occasionally on keyboard. With little more than a quick 20 minute run through. Was I technically proficient? No. Was I identifiable as totally hopeless/fish out of water/spotted as a fake? No. Did I (and others) have fun? Absolutely yes.

Please don't let your rigid ideas of what is fun or right dictate what others should do/think/feel/experience.

leedy

I'm not quite sure how we've got from my saying that it's important to practice regularly if you're going to bother, to 'hours a day' which I was never arsed to do either. It's ironic really.

The reasonable level of proficiency you describe, and I understand exactly what you're saying - a basic level of competency which means you can later play for yourself or with other people - you actually have to get quite far comparatively. You're good so you can get to that level without a huge amount of sweat, but for children who are less talented but really enjoy it - a decent teacher and regular practice makes all the difference.

Reckon we are right lazy arses in our family then! Good grief I could never keep up with the amount of activities some of your children seem to do! What about down time? What about being a bit bored and using your imagination? Fair enough if your child genuinely enjoys doing activities nearly every night of the week, but I'd question whether they would really do all of them given a choice.
My boys do swimming once a week and self defence once a week, that's it. The rest of the time is chilling, homework, doing stuff they like.
Each to their own I guess.

"The reasonable level of proficiency you describe, and I understand exactly what you're saying - a basic level of competency which means you can later play for yourself or with other people - you actually have to get quite far comparatively."

Perhaps, but I'm not sure how this ties in with suggesting a 15 year old who's at Grade 6 level (and is enjoying playing music) is clearly not very good and should work harder. I don't think "reasonable level of proficiency" necessarily == "Grade 8 standard by early teens" or "able to play in an orchestra".

The level of insight he/she seems to have into other people's children is staggering. A one size fits all

Seriously? Do I actually have to spell this out: children have widely different ability and interest levels. The vast majority of children are not going be Vengerov.

All I've ever said is that if you're to bother you might as well do a bit of practice and have a decent teacher. Only in the UK would this be regarded as revolutionary.

Note for us layman parents of children pursuing music: it is far more fulfilling to be able to be involved in concertos, symphonies, chamber music than stuck on scales and The Two Grenadiers. No shit sherlock. (Unless you are that freak person that loves scales...sorry!)

If you get it now, why did I have to explain it the first time?

He loves busking and playing and singing in a band is the same as scales and The Two Grenadiers

Never said it was, you're confusing two different discussions.

Twinkle: it is a lot more enjoyable for you To be able to play something well rather than adequately/scraped through, and it s you who has an issue with feelings of inadequacy or inferiority

Oh ffs. You're right the reason I'd rather play the Swan actually knowing where the fuck I'm going next is because I feel inadequate. Nothing at all to do with loving the piece of music and finding it enjoyable to play.

twinkle

I certainly agree with your point on a teacher and the ensembles.
Our LA have an ensemble for children as soon as they can play a few notes they start from beginner to gr1, intermediate 2-4 and then gr5+ advanced by audition only ensembles.
I have seen the children's music progress so much from these groups.
Imo it's not so much the extra learning or practice it's the achievement they get from concerts that spurs them on giving them confidence.

It was the local choir that dd joined aged 8 that really made a difference to her education, who'd have known that one hour per week could make such a difference.
It wasn't specialist or dependant on being grade x, but open to all juniors and then senior section.

Swim club takes over lives.

Dd1 trains 5 times a week, dd2 3times. Different times and different pools. Each day I am going backwards and forwards to different sometimes multiple pools. Tonight dd1 won't finish until gone 9pm.

My life revolves round swimming timetables. I've told them their first Olympic medal is mine.

My dd is the freak who likes playing scales.
Not much point playing if you don't understand scales.
It's not a case of learning them it's being able to use them and relate to them in your playing.
A bit like times tables, they have a purpose far more reaching than just being able to recite/play parrot fashion.

Perhaps, but I'm not sure how this ties in with suggesting a 15 year old who's at Grade 6 level (and is enjoying playing music) is clearly not very good and should work harder. I don't think "reasonable level of proficiency" necessarily == "Grade 8 standard by early teens" or "able to play in an orchestra".

I agree that a 'reasonable level of proficiency' doesn't mean grade 8 by early teens - far from it, that's really only for the most keen. But I think for many children playing in an orchestra or band is an important part of their musical enjoyment. (I'm not talking about top youth orchestras).

I feel bad for him that's all, he clearly enjoys music. And I don't really see why giving him a bit more encouragement is outrageous.

"But I think for many children playing in an orchestra or band is an important part of their musical enjoyment."

I actually agree with you there that playing with other people is a huge part of musical enjoyment, and definitely playing in orchestra and other groups has been the thing that's actually made me play my instruments most - but that might be playing in a band with their friends, rather than an orchestra?

I can't wait to tell ds that someone feels sad for him. He's at band practice at the moment- they're getting ready for a paid gig on Saturday afternoon, but I'll be sure to let him know. I'll also let dd -(her with the 3 grade 8s) that she didn't realize her potential. I think it's choir night, though, so it won't be til later

NewLife4Me, it was meant to be tongue in cheek, not an insult. Of course scales are important. And your DD is exceptionally talented and understands musicality far most than anyone, I know.

Problem is that at a younger age, not all take to them and don't quite get the relationship they have in the wider context, but hopefully good teaching and maturity helps along the way.

This thread has a lot of posters that are sharing their children's early extra curricular activities and whether there's a balance vs chilling, let alone considering whether their child will make it to Grade 8 at 13 like one poster.

I have no doubt that someone like Twinkle has a lot to offer in terms of positive support for those with children embarking on their musical careers, what ever form, and level it takes them. But today, was not one of his/hers finest days...

And it's people like Twinkle that put me off mixing in the musical world. It's intimidating for those who hear the stories of if you're not Grade X but such year, there's no chance. Many schools don't even introduce music into the offering until Y3 plus, let alone aged 3. Thankfully, I am thick skinned enough to let it wash over me and gauge the level of my own DD's success against her own success criteria, and remain fluid with what's deemed too much/too little in what she does in her free hours.

I never said your daughter didn't reach her potential, good luck to her. Given your attitude, she must be naturally talented.

I remember all the teen bands I used to go see where are they now...?

Where are the teen bands now? Same as the teen orchestral musicians and choir singers. Some of us became doctors, some painters or teachers, and a very few became musicians. We had a tennis coach like this who wanted to prepare every 4yo for Wimbledon. Spectacular drop out rate.

Most parents aren't trying to bring up the next Yehudi Menuhin, but to instil a love of music, a joy of movement or the fun in painting something.

Well ealing it's people like you who put me off twits tbh. I've spent an entire afternoon correcting your misrepresentation of what I've said, and you're still spouting the same thing.

Music afaic is widely inclusive. Anyone can play (who doesn't have major coordination issues) providing they have a decent teacher and do a bit of practice.

Taking a comment I've made in relation to music at a relatively high level and applying it to everyone is silly. What is applicable to one person isn't applicable to another.

Mine do 3 x tennis each. Then DS does 2 x football plus an instrument at school and DD does Brownies and swimming.

ealing

I wasn't insulted honestly, she is freakish but we love her
People are not amused or don't see the humour when we call her a freak, but all of them are, they aren't like other kids in some respects, of course in others they are exactly the same.
Honestly, I wasn't offended

Precisely paxillin, they have normal professions. Many teens excited about getting paid for a gig at 15, dream of doing it as an adult and end up really disappointed.

The vast majority of involved in music are doing it for the love of it, not because they're on the lookout for the next Mozart (Menuhin wasn't very good).

I'm going to hop, skip and jump over the music practice thread (we aspire to "little and often" as DD has only just started lessons).

I think some children genuinely need to have a more active lifestyle to stay sane. It starts when they are toddlers (and you realise that a jolly good walk makes them sleep well) and then just seems to spiral without much input from us.

DD is in year 4. She approaches most of the day like a greyhound when the starting gate has just opened (except bedtime, when she dawdles as much as possible)! She wakes up most days some time between 6-6:30 and heads off to school at about 8 (so that's a good 60-90 minutes of whatever it is she fancies doing). Bed time is between 8-8:30 (so that's another 4 hours of free time). Homework takes about 20 minutes and any rote learning (spellings/drama lines/tables) gets done on the walk to/from school.

On top of the 4 hours of games/PE at school she also asks to do 4 hours of swim lessons and squad, 2 1/2 hours of dance classes (mostly at the weekend) and an assortment of school clubs that she picks from a list each term. She genuinely seems to enjoy all this and the non-school friendships she makes (we can almost guarantee we'll bump into somebody if we head out for a walk or visit the park).

As long as we make sure there are a day or 2 of "pyjama days" each school holiday she thrives. No club tonight so she has drawn a comic strip, done a bit of homework, watched an hour of Minecraft videos(!) and read a book. She can practice a couple of tunes tomorrow morning.

That made up for me being called a twit NewMum4Me, thank you.

Though based on my very poor grammar, mislaid glasses and being dealt with like some naughty kid with red pen crossed through her misrepresenting text, I am still not 100% if I am actually the twit, or I just put people off twits!

Not all children are prodigies and not all of them will become the next Mozart.

Also I don't expect my DD to be miserable throughout her musician years just because she cannot play grade 8 pieces. She enjoyed achieving grade 1 standard and playing pieces at grade 1 level as much as she enjoys her grade 3 pieces now and she can't wait for the next achievement.

I am sure she'll love the feeling of high achievement she'll get once she learns new pieces regardless of their difficulty/grade. While I agree that the potential to play difficult pieces must give you a great satisfaction I don't think that you need grade 8 by 12 to necessarily do that. As long as you progress you'll always be happy with your new achieved milestone.

Saying that I do expect DD to show commitment and respect towards any activity and its facilitators. If the activity requires practice than she will do that. Out of commitment, respect for the teacher's industry and their efforts to teach and ultimately out of respect for me as I have worked for the money spend on that lesson.

Also DD's piano teacher has such a high level of new enquiries (I know that because she put two of my Dd's friends on a waiting list) that she has no issues to turn people away if they don't practice which I think it is only fair out of respect for her chosen career. It must be very frustrating not to be able to progress with a pupil because he didn't find 10-15 min a day to practice.