To wonder if scots will be voting to stay in the EU?

[Boomingmarvellous]

Because if they do and the rest of the U.K. vote leave, it will trigger another independent Scotland referendum

Just curious.

Well apparently that means fuck all now Cake.

Did I miss something re PR?

They won 56 out of 59 seats, but only 50% of the votes cast were for them. That's a good result for them, yes, but still doesn't mean that everyone in Scotland wants them.

They won 56 out of 59 seats, but only 50% of the votes cast were for them. That's a good result for them, yes, but still doesn't mean that everyone in Scotland wants them.

Exactly. This is where our voting system is all wrong and doesn't actually represent the votes of people.

It will be interesting to see how they do in the Secottish elections, that will be a far truer representation of their popularity

Scotland has an additional member system. There are 73 constituent MP's who are voted on first past the post, so like the UK and voted in and out by voters.
There are also 56 which are allocated based on a 2nd vote system, where voters indicate the party they favour.

The point about PR meaning they serve the party would apply to Portillo, Hamilton and Balls, ie they would be selected from the party list by the party leader, whereas in the UK, they all lost their seats.
MSP's therefore have to keep Nicola happy so they are high on the list, even if the voters dislike them personally.

I'm voting out, not sure why being Scottish would make me vote any differently?

As for independence how can we be independent of we are take most of our law from the EU? Surely the point of being independent is we govern ourselves

The other thing is how are they defining Scotland when they say Scotland voted to stay in EU ( if that happens!) given that it was complicated to decide who was Scottish enough to vote in indyref....

The border between Scotland and England is quite clear, and not in dispute. Votes cast in constituencies north of it will be Scottish votes, regardless of the nationality of the actual voter.

It wasn't complicated at all in the indyref.

Well it's called democracy, this is the system we have. And if there is that many people who voted SNP at the GE who feel "tricked" now that the SNP want another referendum then it's simple - they won't vote for them in the Scottish elections and the SNP will do really badly....except I don't think they will, not long to wait to find out eh?!

But voters don't act that way. I have voted SNP in local elections for a candidate I knew to be a good representative. I know SNP Holyrood voters who voted no to independence and Labour voters who voted yes.

That's not the point though Laguna. Scotland voted No on independence, after we were told it was a once in a generation thing by the SNP. It is totally irrelevant how people voted in the subsequent GE, they can't just start shifting the goal posts because of a surge in popularity, effectively lying about when there may be another referendum. Although, I suppose it just shows them more and more as the slimy, hypocrites they actually are. The referendum was held for us to vote on independence. I don't give a shiny shit how people vote in other elections, they are not indicators of people's attitudes to independence.

I don't give a shiny shit how people vote in other elections, they are not indicators of people's attitudes to independence.

You really can't second guess peoples motives for voting. The SNP do not hide the fact they want independence, it is one of their main campaign points. People who vote SNP who don't support independence will be counted in amongst independence supporters, how else can you do it.

Scotland voted No on independence, after we were told it was a once in a generation thing by the SNP. It is totally irrelevant how people voted in the subsequent GE, they can't just start shifting the goal posts because of a surge in popularity, effectively lying about when there may be another referendum. Although, I suppose it just shows them more and more as the slimy, hypocrites they actually are

I'm sure the forthcoming elections will show the SNP what the people of Scotland think about them/ independence.

No, the forthcoming elections will show how people feel about SNP in comparison to other parties. Our opinions on independence for this generation were logged and accepted when we voted No during the referendum. Once in a generation. Their words not mine.

And I repeat - vote for the SNP (for whatever reason ) and you will be voting for a party that wants an independent Scotland - so don't vote for them if you don't want an independent Scotland, it's not rocket science. A lot of people seem a bit obsessed with this "once in a lifetime" point, well things change - if enough people want it there will be another referendum.

Re once in a lifetime: just pointing out the terms on which the referendum was undertaken.

Does this "neverendum" benefit Scotland?

No it doesn't. Less than two years on and the majority of Scotland are having their vote undermined, all for the benefit of the snp. If anyone was ever doubtful of them, the blatant disregard they are treating the majority of the country with should help show what they are really like.

I agree Laguna, if you voted no for independence it doesn't make sense to vote for SNP.

As I've said before, I am not necessarily against an independent Scotland in the correct circumstances and at the correct time. I voted No and if anything the situation is worse than it was when we voted. I am not saying that there should never be another referendum, but the time to start campaigning for one is definitely not now.

I do however hate the SNP with every fibre of my body. How can anyone vote for people that are mainly mindless drones dragged of the street, willing to follow the party line just to make up the numbers? Good people who were loyal and hardworking for the communities they represented were voted out in some sort of backlash. I don't believe that anything positive came out of that. I'd rather have someone elected that was listening to their community and representing them rather than following a party line regardless.

The councils are cash strapped because of SNP policies but only those councils not under SNP control are able to protest. I've said before that even an increase of a few pound a year on the council tax would save many of the local services that vulnerable people are losing. How that is serving the Scottish people I have no idea.

They had loads left in their poverty budget but allowed people to resort to food banks as it was more politically beneficial to them to score points than to actually use the money to make sure that vulnerable people were fed. Bunch of utter gobshites.

The point is Laguna and Peggy is that according to the SNP another referendum should not even be getting discussed at this point. They said once in a generation. So less than two years on people should be able to vote for them because they support other policies of the snp that may improve Scotland. Unfortunately the snp are that arrogant that they don't see that. They just assume that they can start talking about another referendum. It's absolutely disgraceful.

Paul I don't disagree, I wouldn't piss on nicola sturgeon if she was on fire - I detest the SNP, their arrogance is astonishing.

I wonder how confident the SNP would be though of calling a second ref. It's hardly ideal timing for them considering the current state of the oil industry. If they got defeated for a second time it would be curtains for their cause for a few decades.

Maybe they meant once in a political generation? Alex has now stopped down...

Also to be fair, it was piece of rhetoric to encourage people to get out and vote, rather than a contractual promise (I don't think it was written into the Edinburgh agreement?)

So less than two years on people should be able to vote for them because they support other policies of the snp that may improve Scotland

Eh? But the SNPs raison d etre is independence. If you don't want independence then vote for a different party that has policies that may improve Scotland. The SNP want independence, the fact they make a adequate job of running the country is kind of secondary to that.

Once In a Hamster Generation?

Maybe they meant once in a political generation?  Alex has now stopped down...

We all know full well what was meant.

The snp told us it was once in a generation. People should be able to vote for them on their other policies as they assured us it was once in a generation. I fail to see what is so difficult to understand about that. Right now independence shouldn't even be getting discussed by them, let alone another referendum.