To ask this mum why ds was not invited...

[Bookeatingboy]

My ds (nearly 8) has ASD. He is in ms school and has been friends with a group of around 7 boys since pre school.

He and his dtb have a birthday soon and I'm doing a party. I'm sat writing invites when I quickly go to one of his friends parents FB page to check the spelling of his name (not FB friends with her BTW) and I see a picture of this boys party from a couple of months ago. Every single one of the group were there... ds was not invited. This boy along with the others have always been to ds's parties and ds has been invited to others parties too... or so I thought.

I'm sat here in tears (which is really not like me) as it's the first time it's hit me that he has being excluded because he has ASD. Now clearly I don't know this for sure but why else would he be the only one of this group not invited.

I want to ask her directly why ds did not get an invite which I know makes me appear like a loon but I'm so fucking angry at the mum right now.

If two boys mums we're hosting the party maybe they both thought the other was inviting the OPs son.

They would be the best outcome - a genuine mistake.

Bookeatingboy

Thanks for the compliment about my writing but it can't be true if you see any criticism of your personality in what I'm posting ;-) I think you're great! You're clearly intelligent and have an intuitive understanding of social dynamics. You seem kind but have your head screwed on. It's clearly a testament to you that your son is so well adjusted. Bluntly put: I like you.

That is why I think you understand why you have to broach it. It is human nature to obsess about things we don't know. Walking away now without any explanation will play on your mind much longer than any potential argument. I have said this before but I believe that many people on mumsnet are obsessed with saving face and this drives all their relationship advice. They will always recommend that you go no contact or "fade people out" without explanation, no matter what the scenario, as some sort of immature power move.

My 2 BFFs are going on holiday together --> fade them out
My sister bought me a smaller gift than her own husband -> go NC
My best friend of 40 years who nursed me through 10 years of illness forgot my bday --> fade her out
My MIL... --> ALWAYS GO NC

Any attempt to bring up any issue with the offending party is always cast as fruitless confrontation. They simply assume the worst of people and move on. Yet twinned with these posts are many "I don't have any friends" posts and people wonder why.

Please please please don't give this the power to eat away at you and make you second guess the life you've built. Your instincts are completely correct to want to confront and you know they are. You will be happier in the long run with answers, even if they are negative.

Even if I'm the only one, I'll fly the flag for talking not walking! waves flag frantically

Apple. I get exactly what you are saying and I agree with you. I think there is a huge middle ground between going NC/exploding with rage and doing nothing.

You should keep quiet (as you asked!) IMO because children are excluded for a multiple of reasons, and no-one should have to explain why someone wasn't invited to an event! My children (NT) have often not been invited to parties that I could see other children having, for a variety of reasons, sometimes parents keeping numbers low, sometimes more of a parent/friend event (e.g. bbq with close friends), sometimes just seemed to be the vagaries of it all. My dd2 wasn't invited two years in a row to a party where I thought they were quite good friends, she just wasn't one of the 5 invited. The third year she was! They certainly didn't get to go to every party in their circle of friends at all, and parents do these things very differently.

I always set a limit of say 6 guests and then didn't budge. If a parent whose child wasn't in those 6 then asked me about it I would be mortified. It's the child's choice, she chose not your child, what more is there to explain.

Also, hierarchies of friendship seem most fickle from aged 6-8 I would say, as parents move away from whole class parties, and it all gets a bit random, before coming out the other side with more stability. I've found since age 9/10 my children's friendship groups are much more stable.

What you are doing is the right thing- if your son likes this child, invite him to your party. We invited children who never invited back every year. I think it enhances friendships, they are not controlled by the parents quite so rigidly (which it sounds like the other parent might be doing) and it allows them to fall in a more natural way. I never minded having children who never ask back (parties, playdates) over, it shouldn't be a tit for tat game here.

You can't go non contact with an acquaintance as they probably won't notice, I think the point is here that it is the kids that are remaining friends regardless of parental interference. If they were a friend of the op it would come up in conversation, equally with a family member. But someone's parents that I don't see socially I think the situation is different, it is not whether I am cynically minded, I just regard a query about a party that already happened is a bit futile.

But if you have an axe to grind about the mn conspiracy of silence, that is a different matter, I happen to agree there is a tendency to advise to go to nc too quickly, just not in this particular circumstance, there are better examples on the boards.

The thing is, it isn't just a choice between questioning a parent about something that happened months ago or letting it fester. You could just rationalise it in a way that enables you to let it go!... One non-invite to a party is not something you should be dwelling on. It won't change the fact your child was not invited and raising it is highly unlikely to result in your child being more likely to be invited to parties in the future - in fact, it could be counter productive and make the parents quite keen to discourage ongoing friendship (eg decline the invite to your ds's party, which probably would upset your ds).

If you do raise it with the parents, you have to be sure you are exceptionally diplomatic and don't appear remotely accusatory! Personally, I would favour doing more to encourage the friendship myself, rather than bringing potential issues to the surface at this point in time, so that my child risks losing friendships altogether when all that has happened so far is one failed party invite.

Are you close friends at all? I think, if you are, it might be OK to ask or say how you feel about it. If it's someone you just know by sight or just on small talk terms, I might leave it. Your call.

Honestly, I think this is far more likely to do with you not being friends with the mothers than your DS. It's just the way it goes in some schools and communities - if you want your children to be part of the circle, you have to get friendly with the mothers as well. If you don't, then your child tends to get forgotten about. That's how it works in my DDs school (and I'm a working mother who travels a lot for work, so I appreciate how tough it can be to find time to socialise with school mums on top of everything else). You just have to suck it up and get busy at the weekends/school holidays with them, or accept you DS will get left out.

I know everyone is being nice but does anyone think it might be the ASD? Sometimes there are certain behaviour challenges surrounding the condition and they are at the age where the differences are more obvious. Whether it's coming from the parents or children, I don't know. I know 3/4 kids with the condition and this problem does seem familiar from what the parents have said. That's why I'm wondering if it's best for op to be open with the parents about her feelings, especially if she knows them well. After all, this is not just about bog standard cliquiness.

gandalf - in this case, the OP has said that her DS has no behavioural challenges. So I suspect the ASD might be a red herring here. And, TBH, it doesn't sound like the OP does know the parents that well - knowing a parent well is, by definition, knowing what people are up to. Not even knowing that a child's birthday was imminent doesn't sound like the OP and the mum are that close at all.

gand my opinion is this... and I know everyone is trying to offer alternatives so again this is MY viewpoint.

He has been excluded because these parents don't know anything about ASD (and why would they) so often have a very skewed perception on what it means. They will draw from what they might have read or seen (think rain man), other people's opinion and what they might know from personal experiences. This is fine BTW, I don't go out of my way to research every condition under the sun just in case I might come into contact with someone with one of these conditions... why would anyone!

The problem is that this approach often generates a fear of the unknown so these parents have probably decided (based on what they believe) it would be easier to exclude him rather than talk to me to understand what they might need to do to include him. Incidentally I never once said on this thread that there was any malicious intent behind their decision, nevertheless I still believe there was intent to exclude because he has ASD.

This has never been my way, I remember inviting a little girl with DS to my sons party when he was younger, and certainly had no qualms about talking to her mum about what I might need to do to make it an enjoyable experience for her. Furthermore I believe my sons ASD has made me a better person in that it's enabled me to come into contact with people who's children have an array of different disabilities which have given me a totally different perspective on life.

OP, I don't get your argument. If your DS has been such close friends with them for such a long time, then the parents involved must have had experience of his ASD and how its a non-issue. How can they not???? If you're close, surely he is in and out of their houses, doing playdates etc at yours etc.

Or does none of that happen? In which case, your definition of close friends and theirs might not be the same.

I remember my 5 year old brother asking me why he hadnt been invited to another boys party.

I cried my heart out.

I was 15. I'm now almost 40. I've never recovered!!!

I feel ur pain.

Sorry -no help other than empathy!

Oh OP, I really feel for you, but I really, really think you're barking up the wrong tree with this (and I have a first hand experience of SN exclusion, so don't normally say that).

I've read your posts again, and I can't see any mention anywhere of any extension of the friendship outside school - in fact, you even said that he only sees them in school. IME, as children get older, the outside school bit matters a LOT. My DD now really only sees her "best friends" as those she sees both in and out of school - either at activities, playdates or at whole-family social events.

Do you think it might possible be that, rather than SN? Because if so, its an easier problem to solve, right?

The OP said that her DS compartmentalises home and school life and the other mums are all friends outside of school so I think it's unlikely he has been on many playdates and the like over the years. I suspect this is the root of why he wasn't invited which is still shitty of the parents, but at least it would mean he wasn't excluded on the basis of his ASD I suppose?

Yes, I agree, Jessica.

It's a shame if that's why op. Is there any way you can drop it in conversation? You don't have to single them out but you can have an example of how some friends have found it difficult and have excluded him and you don't know what to do about it and then they might think, 'Ah, I have unwittingly done that' and it might just educate them

I don't think you know very much about this "friendship" at all. I work in a primary school. Children often say someone is their "best friend" when they have little or nothing to do with them, they just feel like claiming that person as their "bestie". Often they play with the same people all the time but don't really acknowledge or value the friendship.

There is nothing to be achieved by approaching the parent or asking why your DS wasn't invited. Absolutely nothing.

I know everyone is being nice but does anyone think it might be the ASD?

It's not as simple as saying "it is / is not the ASC". It's extra easy for children with social disabilities to drop below the invitations radar and it's extra hard for them to climb back up again. They have all the usual reasons for missing invitations and on top of that they also have reasons related to their disability. And some of those extra reasons happen to kids whose behaviour is fine.

To cope with the social demands of school a lot of kids with ASCs need extra chill time alone after school, and many others cope better with regular and structured activities out of school (which is what the OP's DS does). So even though they have good friends in school who play well together they still can't be part of a group who casually play round of each other's houses after school.

But that doesn't make the school-time friendships and the parties any less important, if anything it makes them more important. Only it's easy for kids to get dropped from invitations as friendships change and parents don't see them around.

surely he is in and out of their houses, doing playdates etc at yours etc.

I've met quite a lot of primary-age kids with ASCs and I can think of exactly one who could do that.

your definition of close friends and theirs might not be the same.

Well yes, it might not be the same, and that's one of the problems our kids face. Other parents don't know how friendships work for kids with ASCs.

I kept up DS' big birthday party even in years when he got almost no return invitations. It was what he wanted and made his birthday special like any other kid; it kept him in the social swing a bit more than he would otherwise; the other kids could have a good time without feeling over-burdened; and it probably did get him one or two extra invitations over several years. (And actually my DS had behaviour problems which did limit who invited him back and I have no complaints about that.)

Anyway, this is part of the reason I agree with the OP that she should simply keep quiet and invite the other boy. The boys get on well enough and asking isn't likely to get a useful answer. The important thing (to my mind) is to invite the other boy to keep the social channel open. And maybe if you get a chance OP, to mention to the other mother that your DS values his friendship with hers even though your DS doesn't get to spend much time with him. (But only if you feel like - you might prefer to save it for one of the nicer mums.)

I understand all of that Kleinzeit, as I said, I have first hand experience.

But its different saying that ASD has indirectly led to social exclusion, to saying that a parent deliberately didn't invite DT1 because he has ASD. The two aren't the same thing, and perhaps need different approaches.

The two aren't the same thing, and perhaps need different approaches.

And I've agreed with an approach which would probably work reasonably well without putting the other mother on the spot and without having to second-guess her motives.

Bookeatingboy
I totally understand your need to find out why DS not invited and being upset when you found out. I was almost in tears more than 18 months ago when similar happened - all girls in class invited to party (age 6) except my DD. My heart bled for her, especially as teacher on the monday asked the whole class wheat they did at weekend and every girl answered the same except her.
The teacher reported that that day she stood slumped in the playground, watching the girls play. she has since cried at night and asked me why she has no friends.
Although I now come across as a confident sociable adult, It brought back the ghosts of my childhood bullying and exclusion (being a brown skinned child in early 80's in a 'white' area in Glasgow was traumatic. Parents children and teachers judged our family before we'd opened our mouths.

In the event I didn't approach that mum, I carried on as normal as if nothing had happened though I wanted to grind her bones and stamp on them.
For my situation it turned out to be the right thing but ifI'd had any kind of connection with her I would have asked right off. From having observed her since I have concluded she is plain unkind and nasty; sadly there are people like that. You cannot protect your DS from such people. They have to learn for themselves.
It is not kind or 'nice', but it is life. For the sake of my child I am civil with parents I don't like. Having children has taught me the discipline to hold my emotions in check and act with my head like nothing else.
Before you act, think what you have to gain by such an action and what your child has to lose

You know this mum; if she is decent and it burns you up not knowing, then ask.
To those you say "you'll forget it in a few months", "move on" that's great that they can but not everyone can so do what's right for your situation.
We all have our frailties and sensitivities so maybe some fellow responders who don't understand why you are upset at this get sensitive on behalf of their child for things that don't bother you.
You sound wonderful . All you want is for your DS to be a confident happy child and to take any pain away from him.
The hardest part for me so far in being a mum is watching my DD go through sadness and pain; my instinct is to wrap her up in cotton wool and protect her . It won't help her though to be a robust individual.
The wonderful thing is for your DS's birthday he has friends who you can invite. Imagine a child saying they don't know who to invite from their class as they have no real friends.

Good luck for the party.

I know its a little late but thought I would add my experience. 4 boys all friends my DS particularly close to 2 of the other boys. Found out the other 3 boys went out for one of the boys birthdays and my DS was excluded. I was really upset especially as this boys Mum had twice asked me to help her out in the month before the invites for the party went out. I chose dignified silence but couldn't quite put a smile on my face. She noticed and asked me about it which turned into a row and we have never recovered from it. I wish I had tried harder to put the smile on my face as I feel my ds will be the overall loser.

I agree with Apple. That was a very insightful post. If you can let it go, then that's great. But if you can't then it's no good to pretend you're over it and have resentment seep into all future actions. I think I do this too much myself.

OP, maybe you should ask what the deal is but be warned... If you do it might cause a problem in your sons friendships with these boys because their parents are embarrassed at being called on the exclusion.