to think CM Options have been bloody useless here?

[VelvetSpoon]

I'm a single parent to 2 DC. I split with my Ex over 7.5 years ago. I never claimed anything - mainly because he's a complete arse who,concealed his income (all through a ltd co, he earned 5k a year,rest was dividends) and also because he said he'd rather be unemployed than pay me (he said this at mediation too, that I didn't deserve a penny!). I was / am lucky in that I don't need the money to live on.

Anyway, recently I was talking to my boyfriend about my house (Ex is still on mortgage - I've tried to buy him out but he won't respond to a text and I've not spoken to him for 5 years) and ge said why don't you just apply for maintenance, might piss him off enough to do something about the house? And if not you've got some money you can put aside for DC.

So I contacted them. Initial call where they explained how it worked, 30 mins. Second call where they set up the application 55 mins. Third call for clarification 15 mins.

Now I am not a chatter on the phone by any means. I am pretty clear and concise. So I wasn't prolonging the calls, that's how long they were because of the info requested, and the person updating their system etc.

So in all those 3 calls I explained my eldest child isn't my Exs. The position, as I informed them v clearly, is that DS1 has no contact with his bio dad. He's not on the birth cert, this is blank as to father's details. I have had no contact with him since before I knew I was pregnant, and no money from him. I met my Ex when DS was 18m, he has treated him as his since then, DS called him dad etc. He has never formally adopted him as we didn't think it necessary. I've always been v clear he should treat both DS and our DC together the same.

So I don't think that's complicated right?

On calls 2 and 3, I was asked if my Ex was on the birth cert. Well no, because I've said no father was named, and I've just told you we met when DS was 18m! Has he adopted him? No, I've already told you.

So today call no4. They can't claim for DS1 because he's not on the BC.

Would i like to make a claim against his dad? Or would I like to make a family arrangement with my Ex (despite me telling them on every call we don't speak, and he doesn't reply to other correspondence).

Is it too much to expect in 1.5 hours of calls I might get the right info, or for people to actually read the notes?

Apparently they're not proceeding with my application now, complete waste of time!

Outside the world of MN though, anyone I've spoken to in real life (those people who know the circs, that Ex isn't his bio father but that he has always treated DS as a son for the past 15 odd years etc) have been surprised that I can't claim

Or, more likely, you hear what you want to hear, which seems to be a common theme with you.
Nobody is surprised that you can't claim maintenance from a man you last lived with 8 years ago for a child who isn't his. No-one with an ounce of logic, anyway.

If you want to put a positive spin on it, you could look at it as every time your ex had looked after DS1 it has been free childcare.

Phequer you're obviously a bit thick because it's an entirely different situation. Unless you lived together for 8 years, those children were babies when you met, you ensured they called you Mum as they had never met or had any contact with their bio mum, behaved as their parent both in the relationship and after it ended, treated them identically to your own children you had with the same partner, then it really isn't the same.

Would you call yourself their Mum? Doubtful. My Ex calls himself DS1s dad. So it is quite different. Not to the CMS, but the facts of my sons upbringing are utterly different to the situation you describe.

I'd hazard a guess the first person you spoke to about CM either misunderstood you or just left areas of the form blank and all other people from CM, you have spoken since, have then been mislead by what the first person wrote or omitted. Doesn't mean they are all stupid.
Why you would bother to go through all this hassle to try and claim for a non bio 17 year old, when you don't even need the money is beyond me. Just put a claim in for your younger child and save yourself the drama.

Ziggy I think the issue is more you read and make assumptions of what you think the facts are, then don't like someone pointing out your assumptions are wrong. And really if all you're interested in is patronising and belittling people I'm sure there are plenty of other places where your comments might be more appreciated, and less adeptly responded to.

I note you didn't respond to my question upthread concerning another baseless assertion you'd stated as fact....

Not quite Mary, more that if you have treated a child as your own from it's infancy, made no distinction between that child and your own biological child, encouraged the child (like your bio child) to call you dad - because the child had no contact whatsoever with bio dad and never would, and continued to see child and take an active, fatherly role on his life, that the man would then have a similar financial responsibility to his bio child as the one he had treated exactly like his bio child.

But you are the one saying that he treated your child like a son. There is nothing legal to back that up because you didn't marry him and he didn't adopt your child. Do you seriously think that CM should make men financially responsible for children they are not biologically related to just because their mothers think they should?

Well I think it's amazing that you have brought two boys up and worked hard at a full time job to the point that you don't need financial help from your ex partner!!

Good luck with sorting out the house and hope the courts deal with it fairly and that you get what you justly deserve!!

If an unmarried couple referred to eachother as "hubby" or "wifey", and then separated, they wouldn't suddenly be treated in law as if they had been married. The same applies here.

It's crap that your ex isn't paying for DS2. That's unforgivable. It's also pretty crap that you didn't claim for DS2 when you could have. Even if it was £5 a week (the old amount you paid if you were only on benefits, I believe it's now £7) that's still nearly £2000 - a first car perhaps, or towards uni fees, or to begin saving for a deposit on a house. It would probably have been more unless he was on a total tax dodge. That's gone now.
Your ex hasn't given up on DS1 though and everything else aside I do think that is admirable. He had absolutely no responsibility to continue seeing DS1 at all. You can argue that "morally" he did but that's a matter of opinion and this thread shows how that opinion is divided.

This thread feels like a far bigger waste of time than the phone calls.

That equal treatment may very well go out of the window when he receives the CSA paperwork.

He's been good enough to keep contact going, allowing you a regular break and feeding/entertaining a child that is not his. He may not be willing to do that now you have started playing games.

Getting married is most certainly not just a bit of paper.

Long term relationships can be loving and full filling but if they mean the same in law as marriage, what would be the point of marriage? It means something in law and that is how it should be imo.

You said adoption would have added nothing. Words fail me. If your ex had adopted your son he would have become the child's father and you would have been able to claim maintenance.

It's really off to be wasting the child maintenance service time just so you can get your ex to sort out the house. Have a solicitor send a letter and do it the right way.

Just as some people still think "common law spouse" means something in law, living with a child for a few years doesn't make the non biological parent responsible but you'll always get some people who think both count for something.

If you want the protection of marriage and the potential for maintenance should you split, get married and /or have the child adopted by your partner.

I'm able to give both boys £20,000 each - money I have saved and planned.

Yes another £2k would have been nice, it's not really the be all and end all. DS2's father might give him some money anyway because I have no idea what else he spends his money on, he has no car, and no housing costs but if he doesn't I think £20k is enough.

As for a regular 'break' hahaha. My DS is 17, not 5. He sees his dad for a few hours once a week, but not overnight as there is no room for him to stay (DS2 stays sometimes, as he is young enough and small enough to be happy sleeping on the floor). Both boys are old enough to look after themselves, they do when I'm at work. It certainly wouldn't make much difference to me if Ex stopped seeing them, and whilst they like seeing him, equally they have lots of other interests, friends, PT job (DS1) etc to keep them busy enough. If he chooses to cut his nose off to spite his face, so be it.

I don't think yabu OP, I do actually think that morally your ex should pay for both your children. Deciding to be a child's father should not be a pickNmix of the bits you want to take part in and the bits you dont. You do need to accept that legally its not the case though.

I also don't think that yabu to be pissed off at the amount of time and energy you have wasted explaining your situation to various people on the phone over and over again. It was all essentially for nothing as you need to do the process again. Somebody should have informed you that you needed to just do a claim for ds2 as this one would be voided.

I can't quite believe the amount of personal comments hurled at you during this thread re your choice of fathers, not being married etc.

Fwiw, I do actually think marriage is very important. Your much more protected in a divorse than you are during a "split" I'd always advise marriage but for very cynical reasons.

All the best OP, it sounds stressful

For an articulate woman, you seem to misunderstand the term, dad/father. Your second ds bio dad is not, never was, never will be it seems, his dad. As an English person I can't move to France and declare myself French. Yes he is good to him treats him like a son etc, however if he refuses to pay towards their day to day lives, he is a shit.
Get a solicitor to sort the house, you do seem to know where he lives.