to think CM Options have been bloody useless here?

[VelvetSpoon]

I'm a single parent to 2 DC. I split with my Ex over 7.5 years ago. I never claimed anything - mainly because he's a complete arse who,concealed his income (all through a ltd co, he earned 5k a year,rest was dividends) and also because he said he'd rather be unemployed than pay me (he said this at mediation too, that I didn't deserve a penny!). I was / am lucky in that I don't need the money to live on.

Anyway, recently I was talking to my boyfriend about my house (Ex is still on mortgage - I've tried to buy him out but he won't respond to a text and I've not spoken to him for 5 years) and ge said why don't you just apply for maintenance, might piss him off enough to do something about the house? And if not you've got some money you can put aside for DC.

So I contacted them. Initial call where they explained how it worked, 30 mins. Second call where they set up the application 55 mins. Third call for clarification 15 mins.

Now I am not a chatter on the phone by any means. I am pretty clear and concise. So I wasn't prolonging the calls, that's how long they were because of the info requested, and the person updating their system etc.

So in all those 3 calls I explained my eldest child isn't my Exs. The position, as I informed them v clearly, is that DS1 has no contact with his bio dad. He's not on the birth cert, this is blank as to father's details. I have had no contact with him since before I knew I was pregnant, and no money from him. I met my Ex when DS was 18m, he has treated him as his since then, DS called him dad etc. He has never formally adopted him as we didn't think it necessary. I've always been v clear he should treat both DS and our DC together the same.

So I don't think that's complicated right?

On calls 2 and 3, I was asked if my Ex was on the birth cert. Well no, because I've said no father was named, and I've just told you we met when DS was 18m! Has he adopted him? No, I've already told you.

So today call no4. They can't claim for DS1 because he's not on the BC.

Would i like to make a claim against his dad? Or would I like to make a family arrangement with my Ex (despite me telling them on every call we don't speak, and he doesn't reply to other correspondence).

Is it too much to expect in 1.5 hours of calls I might get the right info, or for people to actually read the notes?

Apparently they're not proceeding with my application now, complete waste of time!

It doesn't matter if she's trying to force negotiations. These are the options open to her so she's taking them.
And if it doesn't work and she gets maintenance at least he's paying for his kid.

It matters not one jot if the op wants or needs this money, the disgusting piece of shit ex should already be paying.

Op please make sure you apply for ds2 don't let him get away with this.

We as society need to be a lot harsher on these awful parents who think this shits ok.

We as society need to be a lot harsher on these awful parents who think this shits ok

Like the OP, you mean?

What do you mean? I can't see the ops done anything wrong.

She is owed CM for one of her children from one father and a totally different father with the other child.

But she is cross because she can't get CM for both from just one

You can't?
I would call not bothering to even try and get some CM from either of the fathers of my children quite wrong, tbh. And then cynically chasing one for the both of them nearly a decade after the fact. It's obviously never been about the children and their needs.

I'm cross I was misinformed and my time wasted by CM, not just once, but 4 times.

I think Ex should treat both my DSs the same. (Of course at the moment he is, he isn't paying for either). I understand CMS rules can't require him to pay for DS1.

My Ex didn't move out when DS1 was 8, he was nearly 10. We were together for 8 years. Since then he has seen both boys at least weekly, and taken both on holiday. DS1 hasn't stopped calling him dad because we no longer live together! As far as he's concerned he's the only dad he'll ever have. I get this makes no difference to CMS rules, but that's how it is.

There are lots of RPs who don't need the money and either by inheritance or own earnings are comfortably off. But that really doesn't negate a NRPs responsibility to their child.

It doesn't matter that I don't need the money, or the reasons why I have claimed. I could have claimed 7.5 years ago. I chose not to. My Ex chose not to bother paying anything, either for his child or the home he part owns. He lives rent free with family, so has no housing or other substantial living costs.

The point is if he'd paid maintenance from the outset, as he should have, it wouldn't be a stick for me to wield now. And of course if he'd allowed any kind of discussion re the house,we'd have resolved that issue and I'd have carried on managing without any contribution from him.

You wasted your own time and theirs. It should have been obvious that you cannot use the CMS to chase people who are not the actual fathers of children.

You would not have wasted your time or theirs if you had of kept the application to the child who is his.

Actually Ziggy it IS about the children - my home is their future inheritance.

As to their needs, I provide for them emotionally and physically. I work ft. I have paid off a 6 figure sum from our mortgage, thereby securing a roof over their head. I have an endowment which should pay them £20-30k each in 6 years time.

I have also encouraged them to maintain contact with their father, put aside my own feelings for him and encouraged them to see him regularly. They have a better relationship with him than many boys their age do with fathers they still live with.

So how, pray tell, have I not put their needs first? By not claiming maintenance which based on what I know, ex either wouldn't have been required to pay due to his low (on paper) earnings, or would have ceased paying once he went with his threat and gave up work. If he had paid, it would likely have been at a de minimis level. So I don't think it would have made any real difference to us as a family. But clearly you disagree, so please explain....

Her child is owed maintenance.

Their child

Velvet can I ask rather than saying he wasn't on the birth certificate did you actually tell CMoptions that he isn't the father. Even on this thread you are adamant that he is DS1 father. You have said you told them that he wasn't on the birth certificate and they said that doesn't matter well that is true the critical bit is being the biological father and it is coming across that you possibly led them to believe this was the case.

This is the weirdest thread

Nothing useful to add one of those married couples OP assumes is unhappy
but surely this is a wind up? 4 pages in and the OP still thinks an ex partner should pay for someone else's dc just because she had him in dc1 life.

Weird weird weird.

I was VERY clear Ex was not DS1s biological father. I said it in those words. That he was not the bio father, not on the BC (as I didn't know him at the time DS1 was born) but that he came to live with us when DS was a toddler, treated DS1 as his son and DS calls him Dad (and always has).

I don't know how much clearer I could have made it than saying he was not DS1s bio father.

Obviously they couldn't have misunderstood that though because they asked me about adoption, which they wouldn't have done had they believed I'd told them Ex was the bio father.

So you told them he wasn't the father, answered NO to adoption and they...what? Said nothing? Said yes you can claim? What?
I find it hard to believe that people on the phone line that deal with this all day every day just failed to mention the very obvious point that you can only claim maintenance from legal parents of children.

It's far more likely that you misunderstood, weren't clear, or confused the issue a lot. Or all of the above.

I agree that they should have explained to you sooner that you couldn't apply for maintenance for your first child. You also wasted their time too though by applying for maintenance for your oldest child in the first place. You sound reasonably intelligent so I'm amazed you thought there was any possibility that he would be required to pay maintenance.

I'm in an unmarried ltr but even I'll concede marriage isn't just a piece of paper op.

If you had been married to ex he could have adopted ds1 then you could have claimed for him.

In a divorce you would also have avoided this house problem as it would have been forced to be sorted during the divorce.

Outside the world of MN though, anyone I've spoken to in real life (those people who know the circs, that Ex isn't his bio father but that he has always treated DS as a son for the past 15 odd years etc) have been surprised that I can't claim. They'd assumed, like me, that I could, knowing of others who have received maintenance in similar situations for a child of the family. The key differences are most likely that the cases we know of don't involve CMS or CSA as was, so were either agreed via court order or consent. The only person I know who has had to deal with CMS is my boyfriend; he also hadn't appreciated that I wouldn't be able to claim for DS1, and was surprised, like me, that if it was so clear cut, I hadn't been told this in call 1.

And I was perfectly clear. I am quite used to providing accurate and comprehensive responses, ensuring all facts are included, it's part of my job. I've repeated earlier in this thread the info I provided. And yes Ziggy contrary to your confident presumption, the response I got was 'thanks, we'll contact your Ex'. Not that I couldn't claim.

In the next call, when they asked again about the birth cert/ adoption, I repeated the info I'd previously given - and pointed out I'd already given it! - and was again told they'd now contact Ex, as they had all the info they needed.

I appreciate misunderstandings can occur. However being told that my Ex would now be contacted is a fairly unequivocal statement. They didn't say they weren't sure if I could claim, or needed to check the facts with a supervisor, or similar. Just that they would contact him.

I was very clear with what I said. Their response was also clear. In the 4th and final call, having answered the same questions as call 3, I was told I couldn't claim. So I didn't provide anything further, I didn't misunderstand their response, I wasn't confused by what they told me and their responses certainly didn't indicate any confusion. I train staff on telephone skills and we always tell them to check with a manager anything they're not sure of before responding to a customer/ client with a decision, there was no suggestion the people at CMS I spoke to were so unclear they wanted a 2nd opinion

This is very reminiscent of the 'common law marriage' myth. I can never quite credit how widely that is (apparently) believed either.

If we'd been married, we'd most likely own the house as joint tenants, not tenants in common.

I would therefore have been forced to give Ex half the money I put in as deposit. I would also have opened myself up to a claim on my pension. I'd have had the costs of divorce proceedings, and whilst a court may have determined Ex should pay for both DC, I would only have actually received maintenance if I could prove Exs earnings. It is quite possible I'd have been no better off in real terms.

In any event it's rather too late to worry about now. I should add that I was the one who ended our relationship. I would have found it much harder, practically and financially to leave if we'd been married. I am glad we were not, because it made the severing of all day to day ties (other than the house) much easier.

I can't understand why this wasn't cleared up on the first call. The only thing I can assume is that the first 3 people were just not sure enough of the rules and thought they were missing something and just passed it on. It obviously took a few passing it on to get through to someone who fully understood the situation and had the certainty and authority to say no you can't claim. Be interesting to know how fast a turnover of staff there is on the frontline helpdesk for CMoptions. You should have had a straight no on the first phone call Velvet and been advised just to claim for ds2.

Outside the world of MN though, anyone I've spoken to in real life (those people who know the circs, that Ex isn't his bio father but that he has always treated DS as a son for the past 15 odd years etc) have been surprised that I can't claim.

Really? So they think all you have to do is claim someone has treated your child like a son, and then that person will be required to pay maintenance.

Outside the world of MN though, anyone I've spoken to in real life (those people who know the circs, that Ex isn't his bio father but that he has always treated DS as a son for the past 15 odd years etc) have been surprised that I can't claim.

I find that hard to believe.

This thread is strange.

Not quite Mary, more that if you have treated a child as your own from it's infancy, made no distinction between that child and your own biological child, encouraged the child (like your bio child) to call you dad - because the child had no contact whatsoever with bio dad and never would, and continued to see child and take an active, fatherly role on his life, that the man would then have a similar financial responsibility to his bio child as the one he had treated exactly like his bio child.

And yes before someone else pipes up, I do understand this cant be the case with CMS, as they can only claim if someone is the bio father/ on birth cert/ has adopted child.