to think CM Options have been bloody useless here?

[VelvetSpoon]

I'm a single parent to 2 DC. I split with my Ex over 7.5 years ago. I never claimed anything - mainly because he's a complete arse who,concealed his income (all through a ltd co, he earned 5k a year,rest was dividends) and also because he said he'd rather be unemployed than pay me (he said this at mediation too, that I didn't deserve a penny!). I was / am lucky in that I don't need the money to live on.

Anyway, recently I was talking to my boyfriend about my house (Ex is still on mortgage - I've tried to buy him out but he won't respond to a text and I've not spoken to him for 5 years) and ge said why don't you just apply for maintenance, might piss him off enough to do something about the house? And if not you've got some money you can put aside for DC.

So I contacted them. Initial call where they explained how it worked, 30 mins. Second call where they set up the application 55 mins. Third call for clarification 15 mins.

Now I am not a chatter on the phone by any means. I am pretty clear and concise. So I wasn't prolonging the calls, that's how long they were because of the info requested, and the person updating their system etc.

So in all those 3 calls I explained my eldest child isn't my Exs. The position, as I informed them v clearly, is that DS1 has no contact with his bio dad. He's not on the birth cert, this is blank as to father's details. I have had no contact with him since before I knew I was pregnant, and no money from him. I met my Ex when DS was 18m, he has treated him as his since then, DS called him dad etc. He has never formally adopted him as we didn't think it necessary. I've always been v clear he should treat both DS and our DC together the same.

So I don't think that's complicated right?

On calls 2 and 3, I was asked if my Ex was on the birth cert. Well no, because I've said no father was named, and I've just told you we met when DS was 18m! Has he adopted him? No, I've already told you.

So today call no4. They can't claim for DS1 because he's not on the BC.

Would i like to make a claim against his dad? Or would I like to make a family arrangement with my Ex (despite me telling them on every call we don't speak, and he doesn't reply to other correspondence).

Is it too much to expect in 1.5 hours of calls I might get the right info, or for people to actually read the notes?

Apparently they're not proceeding with my application now, complete waste of time!

I agree with others that you should take advice regarding the house, as you don't want to leave yourself in a worse position. It does sound like he is 'sitting' on his asset, maybe waiting for it to rise in price before he comes to you and asks for a share.

Your ex is an arse for leaving you in the situation you're in - but i don't think it's fair to expect him to pay maintenance for a child that's not his. If you want maintenance for your DS1 it should come from his biological father.

Advice I've had re house is that I'm better to negotiate than go to court, at court it could go 50/50 but it's unlikely given the evidence that I've paid £100k off the mortgage etc.

As for maintenance, I'm not bothered about the money it's the waste of my time. 3 separate people got it wrong. All told me btw I couldn't claim retrospectively, so they clearly knew enough to know that, but not one said despite having all the facts that I couldn't claim for DS1. I can understand one person making an error but for 3 to do so is pretty poor.

As explained DS has never met his bio father. He has no idea DS exists. I have no way of contacting him (albeit I wouldn't even if I could).

As explained DS has never met his bio father. He has no idea DS exists

Why does that mean your ex should pay for him, though? He wasn't even around at the time the child was conceived or given any say in the matter.

I'll re-iterate - your ex does sound like an arse in general. Just not sure why you think he should pay child support for someone else's child.

It's a crap situation but really to go through CMS to provoke your exP into responding with regards to the house is silly...go through the courts if you're sure he won't get 50%.

CMO have their flaws but from what you've said here, this wasn't their fault. You can give them the facts of the situation all you like but if you insisted (as you have here) that you think exP2 should pay for DS1, they won't remove DS1 from the application and after double checking he has no legal obligation to pay for DS1, the application will fail.

I gave them the facts as stated here.

They said thanks Velvet, we'll write to him about both DC.

They said I couldn't claim retrospectively, I said fine, if that's the rules.

In none of the conversations before today did they even HINT I couldn't claim for DS1.

Today on the same facts they've had all along I'm told I can't claim.

They ought to know the rules they apply surely?! They were quick enough to tell me I couldn't make a backdated claim, but never indicated there's be any issue claiming for DS1.

As to why he should pay, my Ex encouraged DS to call him dad. Wanted to be his father. If he never wanted any financial responsibility for him, he shouldn't have done that!

Like I said, I don't need the money. But my view is (as I've heard espoused on here many times) if you play dad to a kid, especially for 15 years!, then you should take some responsibility for him.

It's the sheer waste of my and their time that annoys me.

Not meaning to be a cow here, but why did you actually think they could make him pay for DS1?

Because our family law expert mediator said he would be obliged to pay (knowing all the above facts); because I know a number of parents who have paid/ received maintenance in not dissimilar situations; because it's never been suggested he shouldn't and clearly morally he should, having acted as DSs parent for 15 years...oh and of course because in all previous contact with CM, they said I could.

So not just on a whim...

It's not morally clear he should pay at all

clearly morally he should, having acted as DSs parent for 15 years.

I'm not sure why he is morally obliged to pay anything just because you don't want to or can't track down the child's biological father to pay child support.

I believe there is a very small handful of cases where a non-bio parent has been ordered to pay child support, but those were due to very specific circumstances and it's certainly not a given that everyone would get it. I think those cases were via a court order rather than through the CSA. Your family law 'expert' doesn't sound too reliable.

I'm a big at the OP for thinking the non-biological dad should pay for his non-biological son.

Bit not big.

Advice I've had re house is that I'm better to negotiate than go to court, at court it could go 50/50 but it's unlikely given the evidence that I've paid £100k off the mortgage etc

You may have paid off more of the mortgage but he is tied up in an asset that he is unable to realise.

Not as simple as you'very paid more so you get more.

As you say in the eyes of the court it could hold 50/50.

I can't actually believe you think that your ex should pay for DSC1.

*you've

Presumably the cases where a stepparent has been ordered to pay are ones where the stepparent has acquired PR?

Court orders used to be made for children who were " children of the family" and brought up by non biological father. Not sure if this option is still available. CMS can only calculate maintenance for biological children.

Why would your ex boyfriend have to pay child support for a child that's not his? Can't believe anybody would think they should.

Chase his actual father by all means.

Your new boyfriend sounds like she's raised the subject of CM for his own gains rather than the actual childrens.

As sootica says, it'll be quite rare that someone opens a claim against someone who has no biological connection to their child. I imagine it's far more rare that someone opens a claim when there's no biological or legal connection. Add in the fact that a legally minded person has given you false information (assuming you mentioned this) and your conviction that he's liable and I'd guess that the operators were sure they were missing something. Them telling you that you can't backdate is a red herring...they have to tell every applicant that because the CSA did used to backdate claims. I know it's not fair that a person can present themselves as a father figure for years then turn their back on a child, and I agree that that's morally wrong. But CMS aren't there to enforce a moral code, they're there to enforce a legal one to the best of their ability. Could you maybe contact the mediator and ask why they were under the impression your ex was financially liable for your son?

Ok clearly I've got the all kids should have the sane dad brigade on tonight...

I can't trace DS1s dad. He's quite possibly dead by now. Or outside the jurisdiction in other ways.

And in reality...he had no choice about DSs birth, that was up to me. I chose to keep DS.

My Ex meanwhile actively chose to be his Dad. Ex is the only person DS has called Dad. Ex wanted DS1 and DS2 (his bio child) to be treated exactly the same.

Had he said actually Velvet your kid will NEVER be my responsibility, he's just yours, I probably would have dumped his arse there and then. I certainly would never have allowed him to behave as a parent. Who would?!

Oh, and at the risk of drip feeding, my Ex has an older (adult now) DS; his half brother S(despite knowing his own father, seeing him regularly and never calling my Ex Dad) has always been financially supported by my Ex and his family, to the extent that S still lives with Exs parents.

But whatever. I always wanted the boys to be treated equally which I don't think is unreasonable. And in any event that wasn't the bloody point of my OP. I might, and do, think it's bullshit he can't be asked to pay for both. However my actual gripe is it took 4 bloody people to tell me that, and a lot of my time. Plus all the additional time I've now to spend reapplying. When if they'd got it right in the first place that wouldn't be necessary.

Nobody has said all your children should have the same dad. Wind your neck in.

CSA/CMEC/CSO have always been indescribably incompetent.

Ok clearly I've got the all kids should have the sane dad brigade on tonight

Quite frankly grow up! and if you are going to insult posters maybe check autocorrect first

My DC don't have the same DF.

If I split with my DH I wouldn't expect him to pay for DD1.

Why would I?

I was a step parent for nearly 20 years. If my ex tried to get cm of me i'd stop working too. Not sure why once someone leaves a relationship they should still be responsible for their step children.

If your DD has never met her bio father, you receive no money from him, if she calls your husband Dad, and he's always encouraged that, and insisted on treating her as the equal of any of his children then why not.

However, as I've said repeatedly, the issue is with misinformation. Not what I think the position should be.

The reality is I likely won't see a penny for DS2 anyway so financially it's pretty academic.

Back to the house - Ex was made offers by me, of cash. He wouldn't discuss it. You can't negotiate in a vacuum. The mediator even agreed mediation was pointless because he wouldn't discuss anything!

As for it benefitting my boyfriend, how exactly? He doesn't live with me, or financially support me or my DC, he has nothing to gain (other than he wants to help me resolve the house issue - but for my and my DCs benefit, not his).