to think CM Options have been bloody useless here?

[VelvetSpoon]

I'm a single parent to 2 DC. I split with my Ex over 7.5 years ago. I never claimed anything - mainly because he's a complete arse who,concealed his income (all through a ltd co, he earned 5k a year,rest was dividends) and also because he said he'd rather be unemployed than pay me (he said this at mediation too, that I didn't deserve a penny!). I was / am lucky in that I don't need the money to live on.

Anyway, recently I was talking to my boyfriend about my house (Ex is still on mortgage - I've tried to buy him out but he won't respond to a text and I've not spoken to him for 5 years) and ge said why don't you just apply for maintenance, might piss him off enough to do something about the house? And if not you've got some money you can put aside for DC.

So I contacted them. Initial call where they explained how it worked, 30 mins. Second call where they set up the application 55 mins. Third call for clarification 15 mins.

Now I am not a chatter on the phone by any means. I am pretty clear and concise. So I wasn't prolonging the calls, that's how long they were because of the info requested, and the person updating their system etc.

So in all those 3 calls I explained my eldest child isn't my Exs. The position, as I informed them v clearly, is that DS1 has no contact with his bio dad. He's not on the birth cert, this is blank as to father's details. I have had no contact with him since before I knew I was pregnant, and no money from him. I met my Ex when DS was 18m, he has treated him as his since then, DS called him dad etc. He has never formally adopted him as we didn't think it necessary. I've always been v clear he should treat both DS and our DC together the same.

So I don't think that's complicated right?

On calls 2 and 3, I was asked if my Ex was on the birth cert. Well no, because I've said no father was named, and I've just told you we met when DS was 18m! Has he adopted him? No, I've already told you.

So today call no4. They can't claim for DS1 because he's not on the BC.

Would i like to make a claim against his dad? Or would I like to make a family arrangement with my Ex (despite me telling them on every call we don't speak, and he doesn't reply to other correspondence).

Is it too much to expect in 1.5 hours of calls I might get the right info, or for people to actually read the notes?

Apparently they're not proceeding with my application now, complete waste of time!

But you weren't married? So your eldest wouldn't have been considered a child of the family. I think you would have had a tough time getting the court to agree to that sort of maintenance even if you were married to be honest.

I think the mediator must have been confused or made a mistake somewhere.

Nothing has been put to my Ex yet. The CMS have had no contact with him. They can't until I resubmit the application.

Then they were probably double checking the situation, if you mentioned the advice you had been given.

I can't imagine they get that sort of application every day.

I'm not the expert, she was (a court-accredited mediator and partner in a family law firm). Like I said, at the time neither of us questioned her, and certainly my Ex at no point ever said he didn't consider he was legally liable for DS1.

At one point he even got a solicitor to write to me to formalise access arrangements for both DS1 and DS2.

If the CMO 'rules' are they can't claim other than from a bio parent, that's how it is. However if it is that black and white, I remain surprised not one of the 3 people I spoke to at length told me that during ANY of those conversations, and that it took a 4th call to finally be told I couldn't/ shouldn't claim.

I really couldn't have been clearer in the info I gave.

I don't think even the courts would order he pay maintenance as you weren't married.

But that's by the by. I can understand why CMS took your application...Between what this mediator (an expert in the legalities supposedly) has said and your conviction that he should be forced to pay for an essentially unrelated child, I imagine they assumed they were missing some info. I don't mean to sound harsh but a quick Google before putting in your application would have prevented you wasting your time pursuing maintenance for DS1 from a man who has no relationship to him in law.

I also think that provoking your ex by seeking maintenance is the wrong way to go about getting his cooperation WRT the house. If you've done mediation, the next stage is court.

They'd already gone over the details in the previous 1.5 hours worth of calls, because this was the 4th call I'd had.

Then I'm sure they were confused about why you were applying...I'm a lone parent who's used CMO. It took one call to put in the application and they called me once to confirm things.

I really can't afford the court costs in relation to the house at present, and securing Ex's agreement by whatever means is preferable to court action in any event. As to not claiming maintenance, I am perfectly entitled to this money, indeed he's lucky not to have paid for the last 7.5 years. I don't know many (working) men who have got away without paying a penny for so long.

I didn't see the need to research the position on the internet, I was expecting CMO to tell me if I couldn't make a claim - during either call 1 or 2 that is, not call 4.

To be clear, I didn't tell them I'd been told by anyone I could claim for DS1. I didn't demand or insist they put a claim for both DC to my Ex.

I simply said that I would like to claim for DS1 (and explained as set out in my OP) and DS2. I wasn't asked if I'd been married to Ex, or if he has parental responsibility. I volunteered that his birth cert was blank, and that Ex hadn't adopted him. I wasn't asked - possibly they would have asked if I hadn't given this info.

At no point did they sound confused though, nor did they query anything I said.

I was told in call 3 that not all the information had been recorded. I was asked who was on the birth cert. I said it was blank, as I'd already said.

I was asked the same question today. When I pointed out I'd already given the answer at least 3 times I got a 'I don't know why it's not written down'.

They do have their flaws, I completely agree with that. And I do think their record keeping can be poor. It's the same in many companies that deal with clients on the phone though. And given the confusion on this thread, I'm not surprised they were confused too. They will very rarely come across a situation where a person is admitting the other party has no biological or legal connection to the child they're claiming for.

FWIW I agree you're entitled to maintenance for your younger DS and do believe you should start a new claim for that. But where DS1 is concerned, his biological father is the only person who would be liable for maintenance.

I think they were probably baffled that you didn't know that you can't claim from a non bio dad.

That's common knowledge I'd expect most of the population to know.

Your mediator was probably confused because ex was saying he'd pay for ds1.

The csa/cms are crap though, always have been.

It was a system set up to cut costs to the government not to help line parents.

I used to work in customer services for majestic wine (bear with me, this is related!), and once had a customer phoning to say his wine was out of date, wanting a refund. I went through all the usual questions about corked etc and there didn't appear to be anything wrong with it. I was so flummoxed I had to end the call and tell him I'd call him back.

After a few hours doing sonething else, I realised the customer was talking about the bloody vintage on the label!! It hadn't occurred to me that a customer wouldn't realise that.

I called him back to explain.

So, I can see why a bizarre question might take 2 phone calls, not 4 though.

OP don't let the marriage comments wind you up. There are plenty of crap relationships where people get married quickly and don't like each other and get divorced. Many LTRs are more enduring and stable. Plus I imagine the married/not married would have been irrelevant anyway as DS1 wasn't your ex's bio child.

However, the duration/quality of the relationship is completely irrelevant when it comes to paying child support. You could have met a man and DTD on night 1 and got pregnant, and he has to pay CM, because it's his child and he is 50% responsible. His relationship to you doesn't matter, it's the relationship between the man and the child. Legally what matters is who is the biological parent, not who acts like it.

Your DS1's father should be paying for him. You should have pursued that 17 years ago as it's your DS1's right.

Your ex should be paying for DS2.

So why don't you remove the none legally or biologically related child from the application?

He won't be able to claim half the house as he has no proof of any contribution to it. I've had no alternative but to keep him on the mortgage as he refused to enter into any discussion and mediation was unsuccessful

Whoever gave you property advice seems as ropey as whoever gave you family law advice.

If the mortgage is in joint names the titles to the house will be in joint names. If the 2 of you agree to sell that house in the absence of agreement from both of you the sale proceeds can only be distributed, after paying any balance on the mortgage, in accordance with what it says on the titles. This will almost certainly be equal although it is possible to specify different proportions but if you put in 99% and he put in 1% if the titles don't specify that you will find it very difficult to sustain the he has no proof of contributing towards it argument.

As others have said you are paying the mortgage contributions but he is still joint owner. Unless there is a court order banning him he has as much right as you have to live in that house. He certainly could claim that he is entitled to be compensated for the loss of the benefit of being able to live in, or get rental income from, his property.

Of course you could set off mortgage contributions, repairs and maintenance which you pay but there will need to be a reckoning.

Basically if you and he instructed the purchase of the house in joint names equally you have overridden any notion that it's really yours as it was only your money.

OP do you understand now why some couples do get married?

I'm not married-it's better for me that way.

But your situation is much worse for you being unmarried.

My situation is no worse being unmarried. I have no interest in ever getting married, it's simply a bit of paper.

I'm satisfied as far as the house is concerned that I will do better than 50/50, but the best,and cheapest way of ensuring that is by negotiation, which remains my aim.

Apparently I can't remove DS from the application, I have to start the entire lengthy process again.

There is a good chance you would have been in a better position if you were married but that's done now, you can't go back and change it.

Marriage is not just a piece of paper. It is a legal ceremony. It gives many women much more protection after a relationship has ended than they would have otherwise.

But back to your complaint, 5 pages on youre saying the same thing. It took 4 phone calls for you to be told you couldnt claim off your ex partner for a child who isnt his. Yes they are shit at times. Yes you should have put the application in 7 years ago for ds2. That is money owed to your son so it shouldnt matter than you dont need it. It could have been growing in a bank account for him. And you really do need to sort out the deeds of the house.

Im not sure what you hope to gain from this thread?

I know this is a side issue, but re the house - do you know if you own the house as joint tenants or tenants in common legally?

If you are joint tenants then your DS1 could be in a somewhat vulnerable position if anything ever happens to you.

Whilst your ex is stalling on the house issue that's something that could be really important to make sure is in place correctly. Don't rely on your ex to do the right thing by your DS.

From what has been said above re courts being able to make an order requiring payment of maintenance in such circumstances

Very very very rarely and usually under extreme circumstances.

The courts don't usually rule on CMA anyway as after a set time a year I think you or they can apply to now CMS which over rules and court orders anyway.