AIBU to think the teacher is in the wrong?

[Walshie123]

DS is 12 (in Yr 7)

He rarely asks to go to the toilet.

He was in an Art lesson (he had a lesson before this, so it wasn't just after break/lunch and the toilets are locked during lesson change) and asked if he could go to the toilet, it was 15 mins in.

Teacher said no and he left it. 5 mins later he asked again and she said that she had already told him no and he said that he really needed to go and she said that he can't.

5 mins even later, he got up and went over to her and said that he really doesn't think he can hold it anymore and he seriously had to go and she told him to sit down and get on with his work.

He said to me that he would have walked out at that point, but the toilets are locked and you need a note to get the key and he went over to the sink (he said standing helped) and that's the only way he could possibly keep it in. She said he was taking too long to wash his hands and he wet himself.

He then went over to his teacher and asked if he could go to medical as he feels really sick and she then told him to stop it and stop trying to lie his way to the toilet. He sat down.

When the lesson was over he began to cry and the teacher went over and asked what the problem was and she obviously saw because before he answered, he said she began to just back away and start to write on the board and told him to just go to lunch.

He got up and phoned me from the toilets and I went and got him (I pretended he had an appointment, someone else's was cancelled so he got it quick (wasn't true)) and now he refuses to go back, he thinks everyone saw, but by the sounds of things they didn't?? I just don't know what to suggest :(

AIBU or was that teacher in the wrong? (Fair enough if I'm being unreasonable/DS is, but just not sure what to do)

Loving these people so wise after the event!
Maybe the OP has gone, but my question was - why not email the teacher herself , say the boy was upset, and give her a chance to respond?
Instead, people prefer to be a lynch mob - more fun .

I've seen many threads on MN saying that teachers should not respond directly to that sort of challenging/complaint email from a parent, that the teacher should escalate it in order to protect themselves (rather than get bogged down in an email spat with a parent).
In this case the parent should escalate it themselves, primarily because the SLT need to be aware of the consequences flowing from their toilet policy.

mrsguy because this is an issue that a) is directly linked to the school policy, and therefore needs to be brought to the attention of SLT, and b) is, in my opinion, of a more substantial nature than an ordinary gripe of a parent.

You do seem to have an awful chip on your shoulder, myguy.

Firstly I want to say how utterly disgusting the treatment of your son has been. Full marks to him for him phoning you, and to you for going to collect him straight away.
I am showing my age here when I say that in the 1950s when I was at school, my father said to me , if the teacher won't allow you to go to the toilet
when you ask, you say, my daddy says if I need the toilet I have to go.
Then just walk out of the class room and go!! Of course the toilets were not locked then.
This issue of the toilets being locked, who unlocks them when a pupil needs them? If they are desperate do they have to go to the office for a key?
This denial of the use of the toilet, does it not contravene their Human Rights? Surely even a prisoner can use the toilet when he needs to.
I would pursue this to the bitter end.
School toilets should be open at all times!

Why not a chat with the boy about the rules and the reasons, and the wisdom of not drinking excessive quantities

I don't think the "rules and reasons" are going to be any consolation to the boy. It will just sound like excuses. And he was drinking lots of water as he was playing sport.

He should have been able to go to the loo. The school should be obliged to provide basic facilities. If there are problems with pupils misusing these, they should be dealt with separately.

It's a basic misuse of power.

What happens when a child gets a sudden case of diahorrea? What happens when a girl suddenly comes on her period?

This is madness. If you need to go you need to go. I would have serious concerns about sending my child to a school with this policy.

Bloody hell! That's 2016? In UK?

HappyChristmas This isn't about you or your woes. This is about a teacher who didn't let a child use the toilet, noticed he'd wet himself and did jack shit upon noticing. That's horrible and got nothing to do with the general profession. Why do these threads always get derailed?

People often talk about teachers /school being in loco parents - I'd I refused to let my ds go to the bathroom or didn't provide adequate facilities then social services would quickly have something to say.

Yes it's difficult to manage kids behaviours, not great to manage but it's fucking lazy to take away a basic human right (access to toilet facilities) than try to manage it properly such as giving detentions or having kids make up the lesson time they miss.

Teachers - my main gripe is with the school for having these stupid rules, but I also expect a level of sense from a teacher and would have hoped that this woman would rather get shouted at by the slt than watch a child wet themselves. - afterall if you don't care about kids why teach that age group.

Absolutely bloody disgusting. I had this last year and my DD was only 6 in Yr 1! She'd not wet herself since she was 2.

It totally depends on the teacher. School policy is that the children should be 'encouraged' to go at break and lunch, which is understandable, but nowhere does it say they are to be refused during lessons! This teacher that refused my DD was a regular and thank goodness a group of mum's from children in the class all had the same experience, talked to each other and went to the head collectively. The head appeased us, but it continued to happen!

DD's Yr 2 teacher is lovely and I help out in class quite a bit and it's never an issue. I was there for nearly 2 hours in the afternoon this week. During that time about 5 of them asked to go and were told yes immediately. They popped out and popped back in. No disruption to the lesson at all and the teacher knows where they are so if they took their time/messed about etc she'd be on it.

The health risks of 'holding it' are too many to mention! So if it means a few kids fake it and get to skip out of lessons for 5 mins in order to prevent other kids going through what your son did or potentially doing themselves damage holding it then so be it!

If you gotta go, you gotta go!

I was a teacher until last summer. I would always say no the first time. I was bollocks once by SLT for letting go child out to the toilet.

I absolutely agree in principle with young people being allowed the toilet when needed. However, there are huge discipline and safety issues in toilets in secondary school. Students arrange to meet each other, cause damage, go off site, disrupt other lessons on their way etc.

She made an error in judgment, she's human. She's also likely to be under immense pressure and workload from SLT, working in a culture of fear.

I was a teacher for 12 years, I loved teaching, and I was considered quite good. I wouldn't do it again for £100k a year.

In the case of the teacher noticing and doing nothing, YANBU. She should have apologised and helped him.

Regarding her not letting him out, I'm on the fence.

I teach in a school where I am generally free to let children go to the loo on the first time of asking. If we're close to the beginning of a lesson, I'll ask them to wait to a convenient point and if we're close to the end I'll ask them to wait (but you can tell from the reaction if you need to change your mind. If they shrug and get on, they're fine. If they look terrified, upset or uncomfortable you change your mind!) At other times, I'll generally say yes. I am also free to leave the classroom if it's a necessity.

However, our school only goes up to 13 years old so the children are generally easy to control and not out to wind the staff up.

I have shameful memories of my own time in a large secondary school where classes of children tormented weaker or supply teachers with a constant barrage of 'Siiiiiir. I need the toilet! I'm desperate. I'm going to pee in my pants Sir. I'm on my period, Sir. You can't stop me, Sir. It's against my human rights, Sir.' And on and on and on. Several children at a time. 99.9% of the time deliberately disrupting the class. If a child had had an accident in one of those lessons I would hesitate to say it was the teacher's fault.

Poor child. Hope the school are going to engage with you about this, all ses sadly mishandled

I would always say no the first time

What about the well-behaved child who'd take a "no" as meaning no, and thought they weren't allowed to ask again?

MrsGuy
I understand what you are saying. But if a child had an accident like this in your lesson would you just back away or help?

It's quite clear from the thread that many, many people haven't a clue about the realities of school life.

You don't have to have worked in a school to know that a teacher leaving a child in wet clothing and offering no help is unacceptable. Even if his classmates didn't notice in the class they'd have noticed either his wet trousers or, when they'd dried, his smelly trousers - way to encourage bullying.

I've worked with a few iffy teachers in my time, but thankfully I've never encountered any that callous, thick or thoughtless - because that decision, to leave the child in his wet clothes and offer no help, has to come under one of those categories.

A lot of teachers, fairly, complain about the stick they get - well teachers like this don't help your cause one iota. No rules about toilet use make the neglect of that child after he'd had his accident acceptable. None.

When the lesson was over he began to cry and the teacher went over and asked what the problem was and she obviously saw because before he answered, he said she began to just back away and start to write on the board and told him to just go to lunch.

This is the bit that needs to be cleared up. This will be the action that potentially hangs this teacher out to dry.

A lot of teachers, fairly, complain about the stick they get - well teachers like this don't help your cause one iota.

If the conditions of teachers' lives can be held in the balance against this instance. In no way related. Classic whataboutery. Get yourself over to the Staffroom and see what's making teachers leave.

I would never have dared to ask a second time.

Thebiscuitindustry. A child who really needs the toilet will ask again before they wet themselves - like the ops DS. Or in their first request they will say 'because I had detention or a meeting with Mr x at break and couldn't go' in which case I will allow. Most 'can I go to the loo' requests in my school are to get out of the lesson and if I said yes every time I would have no one there half the lesson and would also be i trouble with SLT.
The ops DS was poorly treated - clearly he needed to go - but it is not as easy as some posters here think

I say no the first time because I am told weekly by SLT to not allow pupils to the toilet in lesson time.

I would not have left him in wet clothes. I would have taken him to a pastoral office for assistance. I never had anyone wet themselves.

Am i the only parent who responds with 'youll have to wait' when my children anounce a need for the toilet at inappropriate times? Maybe that's half the problem here...