To have rules for guests, or am I being controlling?

[AnotherNc]

My PILs are coming to stay for 5weeks in our 2-bed flat
They are from a different country and culture, normal for family to come and help for few months after birth of a child. I've managed to delay the visit until DS is 6months!

I want to set some rules but DH thinks IABU. Would value your opinions.

1. I don't want them to take DS out of flat without me.
2. As they will use our en-suite for showers (other bathroom only has low-level shower) I want them to set a time for this rather than tramp in and out of our bedroom when DS is napping/BF/I'm trying to have a break. I need some privacy!
3. I plan to invite them to some baby classes but not all. I feel it's inappropriate for them to observe baby yoga or swimming as other mums may feel awkward!
4. Some days I want to take DS out for day without PILs.
5. I want to do all bedtime routines, he's hard to settle so I don't want them coming into our bedroom after 8pm.
6. I don't want them to bath him without me (I have anxiety re him being left unattended for few secs).
7. DH wants to do a mini-break but I can't face a long drive with PILs as I will have to sit in back with no space and I get carsick in the back.
8. I hate family breakfasts. I want to be able to grab some toast/coffee after the 7am feed then get showered and dressed before facing anyone. DH thinks this is rude.

So... AIBU? So as not to drip feed they don't speak much English so DH will have to translate the 'rules'.

My PILs are coming to stay for 5weeks in our 2-bed flat shock

5 weeks! You're mad for agreeing to that. I anticipate an increase in traffic on AIBU for the next 5 weeks!

I think your rules are fine, but you need to sugar coat and drip feed them so they come across as requests not rules. Also, get DH to bring up several, such as 'we don't do breakfast, please help yourselves'.

Ps. Suggest DH takes them on a mini break and leaves you at home to get a break?!

I would pick one or two non negotiables and work with that.

For me it would be not coming into my bedroom without knocking etc. Put a bolt on your door, which will also solve the problem of interfering with bedtimes (my other non negotiable as I have had 1 DC who was awful at going to sleep).

For the rest, I would just go with the flow. Even if they do something that you don't like, you can then ask them not to do it again. Far less aggressive than meeting them at the door with a list of rules.

For breakfast, why can't you just have some toast, have a shower etc. then sit with them whilst they eat their breakfast? You are BF, you are starving (if anything like me). I would not appreciate having to wait for other people before being allowed to eat but I would compromise and have a cup of tea whilst they're eating.

Jesus

To the people insisting that the inlaw's culture should be respected...

There are two cultures here to consider and one does not trump the other.

Time for compromise and the OP's husband and his parents, certainly don't sound as though they're taking the OP's culture into consideration at all.

OK AnotherNc point taken but you did sound as if you were disrespectful of their culture, the whole assumption that they're coming to sit in your bedroom and be hanging over your baby 24/7 when for all you know they could be perfectly normal human beings. Stuff like this makes me wonder why people don't marry within their own culture then, or is the culture of the country you live in the "top" culture and to hell with their own?

Sorry I DO find there is often an assumption that because someone is from a different culture they'll be insensitive, dim idiots from some social backwater with no family or communication skills. & that they lack awareness. Different doesn't mean careless necessarily. Whilst I see you wouldn't want anyone around for 5 weeks - I couldnt even stand my own mother around for that long - the list of rules is heavyhanded they might well run for the hills if they see it!

I could let my younger DCs go to the shop 9pm no problem back home but my heart would be in my mouth doing it here Id never allow it - for a different safety reason than car seats. Coming to run household isn't a declaration of war normally, usually means someone coming to take on the household chores. Ive realised even I say it. But its not literal.

Im not British nor is OP, and we come from entirely different cultures. Of course I don't like or agree with everything about his culture, and vice versa but you learn to pick your battles. Stuff gets lost in translation at times. Albeit different culture partner is no big deal to me anyway

At least they don't live round the corner. & it might be nice for your DH to spend time with parents he doesn't get to see, same for them some time with grandchild who they arent going to see regularly. Despite all the "he's an arse" style comments here and there he does matter too

I just can't allow them to take him out without me (even with DH present) it just feels wrong

This suggests to me that anxiety is a problem for you, despite several people here telling people to piss off for suggesting so. This just isnt about PILs taking out baby in an unfamiliar country, I assume your DH is more than enough familiar with his surroundings yet this would suggest you dont trust him either! This is your babies Dad, that isnt normal. Is there something happening that makes you feel like this between you and your DH?

worra I think most people are advocating compromise, but I don't feel laying down these rules at the outset will help (except maybe the one about the bedroom, which would be a must for most people, and most reasonable people would understand it). But that's easily dealt with - when your DH shows them round, he asks them to always knock on the door if its closed.

OP - with regard to spending time with your DS how much time have you spent with your inlaws? A lot of my anxiety came because it hadn't been much and I thought they wouldn't be able to cope. But after a couple of weeks it became clear they could - not with a whole day with a toddler, but a couple of hours were fine. Do you let your own parents do things on their own with DS?

I think it would be misguided to lay down those sort of rules at the start when you may feel differently after a couple of weeks.

And no reason they can't just have a bath, they don't have to use the ensuite.

Appreciate my in laws may be totally different to yours, but we had the same set up with bathroom with just a bath and ensuite with shower. We told them just let us know when you want a shower, but they never asked and just made do with the bath, even though I know they shower at home. Presumably the thought of accidentally walking in on me was too much for them. And this was before I was even bf a baby. So you may find your pil would rather suck it up with the bath than disturb you in any way! Alternatively - just work out a time for them to use the shower when you and DS are up. They're hardly going to be tramping in all day if they have their own loo. That would definitely be a major issue for me though so I would want it made clear (nicely) from the start.

Time for compromise and the OP's husband and his parents, certainly don't sound as though they're taking the OP's culture into consideration at all.

Bit of an assumption. No one actually knows what the PIL think.

I think you would be very unfair not to let them know your feelings before they come and then ambush them with your rules once they have arrived and it's too late for them to cancel or go home. The thought of staying with someone who clearly is resentful of you would be horrible. At least if you warn them beforehand they will have a choice.

Slowly feeding them the 'rules' woant help that much. They are still going to feel unwanted and awkward for the whole of their visit.

I think you should make a copy of this thread and read it in 10 years time. You will be

I didn't enjoy my in laws visiting but i tried to be kind to them.

Can you get a lock for your bedroom door?

I wonder if some of the issue is your DH wanting to make the right impression with his parents and that your ILs will actually be more reasonable. DH is from a totally different culture and sometimes gets a bit panicky if someone from home is visiting because we do things differently. e.g. we have pets in the house which isn't their cultural norm so he worried what visitors would think; of course the visitors thought they were lovely and it was a total non-issue.

So things like you having a lock on your bedroom door isn't necessarily the issue that DH is making it. Ask him which he would prefer: you locking the door or FIL walking in when you are trying to get the baby latched on.

If MIL is in her 70's with a dodgy knee then I wonder how much taking over she will really be able to do. As for breakfast, eat when you want but lay out a nice spread for them and join them for a cuppa.

Chaz that's a very good point. My DH was panicked about all sorts of things before his parents arrived, but when they came none of it even mattered, they were far more laid back than him!

I'm someone who's own lovely mother drives me insane after 2 days so the thought of non-communicative, unknown pils staying for 5 weeks in a small space with me as the main provider of entertainment is horrific. Can't they stay with other relatives for a couple of those weeks?

My plan would be 2 weeks altogether with DH doing all the entertaining, a week where they go and stay in a hotel on their own, a week when op goes and stays with her parents or friends and pils have the run of the flat and then just the last week where op is on her own with them. Even I could probably cope with that.

Personally I wouldn't present it as a set of rules when they arrive, I would just deal with each issue as it come up.

As for DH has said his mum will want to run our household- tough shit. She can want all she likes- that doesn't mean she gets to do it. It's up to you and DH to run your household as you see fit, nobody else.

1)I don't want them to take DS out of flat without me.
Seems reasonable to me.

2. As they will use our en-suite for showers (other bathroom only has low-level shower) I want them to set a time for this rather than tramp in and out of our bedroom when DS is napping/BF/I'm trying to have a break. I need some privacy!

You absolutely must do something about the shower, so there is no need for them to come into your room at all. The lack of privacy for 5 weeks will become very wearing. Offer to pay the landlord to get the overbath shower fully tiled, or offer to do it yourself, but this is the absolute key issue. With guests staying for 5 weeks, you will need to keep your bedroom as your private space.

3. I plan to invite them to some baby classes but not all. I feel it's inappropriate for them to observe baby yoga or swimming as other mums may feel awkward!
   Seems reasonable- invite them to the ones where they can join in with DS, such as music or tumble tots.

4. Some days I want to take DS out for day without PILs.
   I think you're going to need days where you have some time away from PIL. It's easy for your H, he's at work most of the time.

5. I want to do all bedtime routines, he's hard to settle so I don't want them coming into our bedroom after 8pm.
   Seems reasonable. If you sort the shower they won't need to come into your room at all.

6. I don't want them to bath him without me (I have anxiety re him being left unattended for few secs).
   Just be around. They are hardly going to banish you from your own house!

7. DH wants to do a mini-break but I can't face a long drive with PILs as I will have to sit in back with no space and I get carsick in the back.
   Hire an extra car for PIL to drive, or hire an MPV. Or drive, and DH sit in the back. Don't be a martyr to carsickness.

8. I hate family breakfasts. I want to be able to grab some toast/coffee after the 7am feed then get showered and dressed before facing anyone. DH thinks this is rude.
   This one is unreasonable. Are you going to lock them out of the kitchen? Get showered and dressed first, grab some coffee and toast to have while you feed, DH can sort breakfast for himself and parents and you join them when you're done. Or feed DS at the table, if that's comfortable. Or feed DS at the table while you all eat together, and PIL can look after DS while you shower.

It sounds to me as if you feel you have to lay down the law before they arrive rather than wait and see how things pan out once they are under your roof. You're getting all territorial.

You do know that it is perfectly possible for people, family, to be in such close proximity to each other for an extended period of time and for there to be no issues?

Or are people not happy nowadays unless there are problems?

I think yanbu! But you can take sertraline while bf if you feel it can help. It helps me.

I would get a lock on the door and use it only if necessary. If they show form for barging in without knocking, or somehow think it is acceptable to come into a dark room while you are rocking a baby to sleep. But if they don't, you needn't use it. Use it only after the first "breach" then it can't really be seen as rude, only preventative.

It's nice of you to let them use the shower, I'd do the same. As long as they are through after breakfast by the time the morning nap happens, it'll be fine. You don't need to lay down a rule though, you can just say to them "shower is free, I'd be grateful if you could get through before the baby needs his nap at xxx time" and that should do the trick.

Personally I can't imagine why they'd want to go to baby classes if they don't speak the language - even in English baby classes are boring as hell, but perhaps I'm the only one who thinks that.

I think you are being a little OTT about them taking the baby out, but they may not want to do this. Of course they might too so you could just go with them? Same with bathing him, if someone takes him off for a bath go with them.

You can manage the breakfast situation by saying "I've had breakfast but there's bread, cereal, coffee, orange juice" etc - if she's taking control of the kitchen she should be able to sort that. If you have had yours and are showered and dressed you can always join them for another cup of coffee or whatever.

The long car journey could be sorted with a 6 seater perhaps.

I imagine you are overthinking it slightly, but it is pretty daunting having guests for 5 weeks in such a small space. I'm not sure why people are being rotten about your DH regarding that - he's not "buggering off to work" so much as going to work - because he'll lose his job if he doesn't. You know, to keep food on the table and stuff. Presumably he can't use 5 weeks of annual leave in one go (not many employers would allow this) and possibly doesn't even get that in a year. What else can he do?

CottonFrock the two countries could quite literally be at opposite ends of the planet in some respects. It's been, ahem, a learning experience.

Disclaimer: I actually really like my mother-in-law. We just don't do very well under the same roof for any more than an afternoon prolonged periods of time.

You know how I would do it?

I would make the assumption that all will be fine.

Proceed with your life as normal.

E.g.

Here is your room, I hope it's comfortable, let me (as I am the hostess) know if you need anything.

Feel free to use our shower - what time would suit and I'll make sure it's available.

IF they ask to take pfb out - say yes, I'll get my coat.

IF they ask to bath pfb - say yes, can you start undressing him, I'll get the camera. Let them bath him, but be there. Allowing these things to happen will increase your trust in them.

Tell them that they can help themselves to breakfast whenever it suits them and you'll be down about 8am or whenever.

Tell them that on X day you and pfb are out, would they like any suggestions about what to do locally.

Don't assume anything negative, and if situations crop up like them coming in your room, nip them in the bud with a - please can you not come into my room unless we've agreed you are using the shower.

The things you are worried about may not occur. I agree you have a DH problem. I do know how you feel, I'm in the same mould. Sertraline and cbt can help, though I am anxious in general, not just pfb.

And as for breakfast - you are still BF a lot and I find that does affect hunger and needing to eat. So I would say that getting your food and nursing pfb is fine. Then maybe Pil could sit with him (or her) while he gums some toast or plays with porridge. Great fun, and they can tidy up the considerable mess!

It doesn't need to be thought about now.

Sorry I DO find there is often an assumption that because someone is from a different culture they'll be insensitive, dim idiots from some social backwater with no family or communication skills
This isn't how I feel at all, but DH feels as you do, he says many people in UK make these assumptions about anyone from a different culture. I usually tell him he is being over-sensitive but maybe he is picking up on undercurrents I'm not aware with.
FWIW I wouldn't let my own parents take DS out without me either.
The cultural difference I referred to was more re views on guests, family roles etc. DH says in his culture it's normal for family to stay for few months to help with baby, female relatives take over running of household, personal space is unimportant, everything is shared and guest is offered the best of everything (best room, best food etc). In Western culture there is more emphasis on privacy, space, not being intrusive. When my parents visit they get a hotel because they feel our flat is too cramped! DH finds this offensive and thinks they are cold.

I've only met my PILs on 1 occasion, several years ago (when we married) as they were unable to obtain a visa until last year. So yes, maybe when I know them better I'll feel more confident.

I do appreciate they are excited about meeting grandson and I don't want to spoil that with rules... I'll get DH to tactfully drip-feed a couple of boundaries and the others I'll just establish at the time eg asking what time they want to take a shower and encouraging a routine to develop.

I don't feel I need to be in the same room as DS, I'm happy for them to take him while I rest/shower/nap just not take him out of flat. DH has never taken him out alone, he has suggested it but I'm not ready. I've left them alone at home for few hours and he baths DS without me present (after promising to watch him the whole time and not turn his back or play with phone while he's in the water). I've heard too many stories about babies drowning in shallow bath-water to be able to relax about this.

Re breakfast I'll do as suggested, just grab something early then have a cup of tea with everyone later.

I like the suggestion of having a calendar on wall with weekly timetable of events and times, DH could write in the translation so PILs know what's happening each day and can plan things on days when we're busy. I have a class 4days a week so need to be up early some days.

Thanks everyone, I'm feeling less anxious about the visit now! I do want it to be a happy 5weeks. I'd like to become close as a family and feel comfortable around each other. But I also know I take time to warm up new to people, I'm quite introverted and used to my own space. It feels like a big jump!

I think I really understand how you feel, I felt a lot like that when my kids were small. Looking back, I was very tired and anxious, and I had to control quite a lot of things just to cope. However, looking back now, I did damage my relationships with parents because of this, and I feel sad about that now... Couldn't have done it any other way at the time though.

Is there a way you could all go away together for 10 days of the trip, just to get some space/air? Also, can you pop off to see someone for a couple of days - just you and the baby? I think it sounds like a bit of a difficult situation all round...
Good luck x

This:
DH says in his culture it's normal for family to stay for few months to help with baby, female relatives take over running of household, personal space is unimportant, everything is shared and guest is offered the best of everything (best room, best food etc)

sounds like a very difficult expectation for someone who is
quite introverted and used to my own space

I'm also introverted and used to my own space and I'd never be able to live happily with someone who came from the sort of culture you describe

he is living in your culture but seemingly expecting you to conform the the norms of the country that he came from?

You are sounding a lot more sensible in your last post

The calendar is a great plan.

One thing I would say is that I really think you need to stop being so controlling over what you allow your DH to do with the baby. It's terrible that you don't trust him to take the baby out. It's unfair on both of them and it's not healthy for you.