To have rules for guests, or am I being controlling?

[AnotherNc]

My PILs are coming to stay for 5weeks in our 2-bed flat
They are from a different country and culture, normal for family to come and help for few months after birth of a child. I've managed to delay the visit until DS is 6months!

I want to set some rules but DH thinks IABU. Would value your opinions.

1. I don't want them to take DS out of flat without me.
2. As they will use our en-suite for showers (other bathroom only has low-level shower) I want them to set a time for this rather than tramp in and out of our bedroom when DS is napping/BF/I'm trying to have a break. I need some privacy!
3. I plan to invite them to some baby classes but not all. I feel it's inappropriate for them to observe baby yoga or swimming as other mums may feel awkward!
4. Some days I want to take DS out for day without PILs.
5. I want to do all bedtime routines, he's hard to settle so I don't want them coming into our bedroom after 8pm.
6. I don't want them to bath him without me (I have anxiety re him being left unattended for few secs).
7. DH wants to do a mini-break but I can't face a long drive with PILs as I will have to sit in back with no space and I get carsick in the back.
8. I hate family breakfasts. I want to be able to grab some toast/coffee after the 7am feed then get showered and dressed before facing anyone. DH thinks this is rude.

So... AIBU? So as not to drip feed they don't speak much English so DH will have to translate the 'rules'.

YANBU to want to protect your privacy and time to yourself/on your own with the baby. I certainly wouldn't want to have to make conversation with my PILs over breakfast every day, but TBH I wouldn't want anyone staying for 5 weeks unless I lived in a mansion ( I don't). Your DH should be grateful that you are willing to go along with this arrangement at all.

The thing is, it sounds like you've closed your mind to the possibility that there could be very significant upsides to having them to stay. If they take the baby out for a walk for an hour, that's time you could use to have a bath/read uninterrupted/talk to your DH/whatever. If they tried a bedtime and it went well, that could be a real break for you as well (I have two DCs, one 4 months so I do know how unlikely this seems! But you never know). My point is, as someone who has a tendency to be controlling, I am still learning that letting go on certain things feels frightening at first but then ends up being really liberating and a win-win.

Anyway, GOOD LUCK!

Put a bolt on your bedroom door, lock it when you need to.
Fix their shower or break your own so no need to come in.
I wouldn't want in laws looking at me in a swimming suit either, and I doubt that they would be allowed in some other classes.
Find things for them to do as well, chance to see the country.

I don't know why you're bothering to have them stay and help to be honest.

Maybe you could introduce rules or be more lenient day by day? Eg after they've taken baby out a few times in the pram with you they can take baby by themselves. What on earth do you think they'll do to your baby?! The mother has been a parent of a baby remember.

"They are from a different country and culture"
"DH has said his mum will 'want to run our household'"
FUCK. RIGHT. OFF. She can 'want' all she wants, buts it is YOUR household and she is a feckin' guest. And I don't give a rat's arse if your DH is fine with mummy taking over, IT'S NOT HER PLACE. If he wanted a wife who would cowtow to his mother, he should have married one from his country and culture. He didn't, so he gets what your culture expects.

I'd hazard a guess that if your DH wasn't coming out with this crap, you wouldn't feel the need to think up rules for MIL/PIL, because you'd trust him to have your back and tell his parents how he expected them to behave. Because some of your 'rules' I'd just class as common courtesy.

"1) I don't want them to take DS out of flat without me."
You're worried about their age, lack of familiarity with the area, traffic, etc., and their lack of English should they need assistance. All fine.

"2) As they will use our en-suite for showers (other bathroom only has low-level shower) I want them to set a time for this rather than tramp in and out of our bedroom when DS is napping/BF/I'm trying to have a break. I need some privacy!"
This is one I see as common courtesy. It's your bedroom, a private space. Of course there should be consideration given to your needs here.

"3) I plan to invite them to some baby classes but not all. I feel it's inappropriate for them to observe baby yoga or swimming as other mums may feel awkward!"
Again, common courtesy. There was a recent thread, might have been Gransnet rather than Mumsnet, where a MIL was all upset about her DIL not wanting them to tag along to similar classes. The consensus was to (kindly) get a grip. And for that very reason, that the rest of the class would not neccesarily feel comfortable, and that it could prevent the DIL from being able to effectively network with the other mums, an important part of these classes let's face it.

"4) Some days I want to take DS out for day without PILs."
Absolutely fine. 'Mum wants to spend time with her baby' shock-horror .

"5) I want to do all bedtime routines, he's hard to settle so I don't want them coming into our bedroom after 8pm."
There could be some flexibility on this one. You could do it together. Alternatively, point out to DH that if DS becomes unsettled, he can spend the several weeks after their visit re-establishing DS's routine. It can be useful to have a less-than-rigid routine - makes it easier for DC to settle when away on holiday, visiting etc.

"6) I don't want them to bath him without me (I have anxiety re him being left unattended for few secs)."
You're not saying they can't bath him, you're just saying you'll also be there. Absolutely fine.

"7) DH wants to do a mini-break but I can't face a long drive with PILs as I will have to sit in back with no space and I get carsick in the back."
I think you've already taken on board the suggestion of a large hire car where you'll be in the front? I get carsick in the back too, my sympathies. The only problem people with knee problems prefer the front is to allow them to push the seat right back and allow their legs to be fairly straight. WHat she needs is legroom, not the front seat. If you can hire a car with lots of legroom in the back, she'll be fine. Alternatively, can you drive and DH goes in the back?

"8) I hate family breakfasts. I want to be able to grab some toast/coffee after the 7am feed then get showered and dressed before facing anyone. DH thinks this is rude."
Family breakfasts. Sorry, but that sounds grim to me. Our household, everyone breakfasts separately. I'd compromise on this one though, maybe grab some toast, head to the shower and return to sit with a cup of tea after I'd got ready.

I would be having stern words with DH that I do not expect his parents to make my life a misery while they are here, and that you expect him to back you up over his mother's wishes should there be a conflict. Otherwise I'd be going off on a mini-break alone and he could take care of his parents all by himself. Five weeks is a very big ask.

However he will be at work 3 of the weeks so most of the entertaining falls to me.

This is the crux of the issue.

Ask him how he'd feel if HE had to hold the fort and entertain his parents for most of the time. And you shouldn't have to 'entertain' anyone you don't want to when you've got a small baby.

Why is he getting away with this?

I'd be telling him 'They rent somewhere and come to visit/meet us for trips out, or they don't come at all.'

I too am baffled by the number of threads on here like this: woman is put out and made to feel she can't relax in her own home by not her own, but her partner's parents.

If they do end up staying with you, at the very least put a lock on your bedroom door so they can only use the en suite when it suits you. But that's a tiny plaster over a gaping wound, let's f
ace it.

We don't know what the in-laws are expecting to do, we only know what the OP doesn't want them to do.

I can understand her anxiety if they take the baby out for a walk alone when they first arrive if they are unfamiliar with the area, but surely they can be allowed to do it after a week or so, when they''ve been out and about a bit and are unlikely to get lost. Also, if MIL has bad knees they are unlikely to go very far.

I think it is important to put a lock on the bedroom door, and also to try to solve the shower problem. Personally I would hate having people wandering in and out of my bedroom to use the en-suite. If there is no alternative, I agree with OP about establishing times for this.

Having guests for five weeks isn't easy, but sometimes has to be done. Perhaps the PILs can't afford to visit more often for shorter times, perhaps the journey is extremely long and tiring for them, perhaps obtaining a visa is complicated and expensive - there are many factors that make people stay for so long. The PILs are coming to stay with their son and meet their new grandson. They are family, not a pair of strangers. I'm shocked by people who say the OP shouldn't accept them, or book them into a hotel or rented house. Yes, it may feel a bit long for the OP, but they are her baby's grandparents. This is what you have to put up with when you marry someone from another country.

No one knows how the visit will pan out, it may be better than the OP anticipates, or it may be worse. One thing is sure though, if the PILs are presented with a long list of rules upon arrival it risks souring relations from the start. It's better to bring up the rules as the need arises. And smile. A lot

However he will be at work 3 of the weeks so most of the entertaining falls to me.

This is the crux of the issue.

Ask him how he'd feel if HE had to hold the fort and entertain his parents for most of the time. And you shouldn't have to 'entertain' anyone you don't want to when you've got a small baby.

Why is he getting away with this?

I'd be telling him 'They rent somewhere and come to visit/meet us for trips out, or they don't come at all.'

I too am baffled by the number of threads on here like this: woman is put out and made to feel she can't relax in her own home by not her own, but her partner's parents.

If they do end up staying with you, at the very least put a lock on your bedroom door so they can only use the en suite when it suits you. But that's a tiny plaster over a gaping wound, let's face it.

I think people visiting for a while is something you have to accept if you marry someone from abroad.

I agree you shouldn't need to entertain, when mine arrived we showed them where everything was and left them to get on with it. I may be prepared to accept visitors for 5 weeks but I'm not going to be a maid all that time! Its very different set up to people staying 2-3 nights.

But I reiterate you can't just yell its not my culture, my way. Why is yours more right than your husbands? Compromise!

YANBU. This is your home and your family. You get to say how things are done. As long as you're polite I can see no problem.

Actually for equality it would be him entertaining her parents for days on end.

The husbands way is sexist. Unless men are expected to entertain in laws at length.

I thnk you are bing over the top, but I understand wher you're coming from. Would they just barge in to yuour bedroom after 8pm anyway? You can't give them a list of rules when they arrive.

Can's you just get an Airbnb rental?

Sorry, I forgot to say that, obviously, your husband has a say too. But most of these rules are about your own peace of mind and privacy, which are important. It can be challenging enough to have visitors for 5 days, let alone 5 weeks, so be kind to yourself and set your own boundaries.

Yes. Your DH should do the lion's share of the entertaining. If he is working and you want to have lunch etc to be with them and for them to see your GC, fine, but perhaps your DH could also meet them for lunch, recommend touristy things for them to do while he is working, book them matinee tickets maybe.. ?

Goodness, what a depressing thread this is.

I am shocked that so many of you have got this poor couple marked down as the PILs from hell without knowing much more about them than the fact that they are foreign(which seems to be a big black mark in itself) , a bit elderly and MIL has a dodgy knee and may try do what is probably accepted in her culture; i.e take over the running of the household to allow the new mum to get lots of rest and enjoy getting to know her baby.

I also think it's a bit ageist to assume that because they are in their 70s they will be a pair of doddering old nitwits who will be totally incapable of taking any part in looking after a young baby. I know plenty of very active and capable people in their 70s who this image just would not fit. Poor MIL's dodgy knee doesn't indicate decrepitude, just a bit of her that doesn't work as well as it used to. I have a dodgy hip but it doesn't mean that I can't look after my DGS when necessary or that my DD fears leaving him with me.

I know it isn't an ideal scenario; who wouldn't be a bit apprehensive about having any relatives to stay for such a long time in a small flat? But, who knows, the PILs may turn out to be utterly charming and considerate people who do their very best to fit in and, in their own way, to make the visit as stressfree as possible.

"If I were to visit family abroad, I wouldn't be demanding I take the baby out alone - I'd want to know I could handle any situation which might arise, be able to call for help if needed and so on.

The fact that your in-laws don't seem to be worrying about that is the very reason they wouldn't be taking any dc of mine out alone."

This.

I'm totally with you OP. My MIL is full of good intentions and in her head only trying to help. But she is also (unconsciously) competitive, overbearing, inattentive to her DGC, offended by the very notion of boundaries, and full of insistent beliefs about childraising that goes against current advice (e.g. breastfeeding beyond six months is harmful, babies should be left to cry and if you react to them too much you spoil them etc).

So I can see plenty of potential reasons why the OP might not want to leave the PILs alone with her baby. Apart from not speaking the language and being unable to handle emergencies, if they are like my MIL they would not notice if the baby slumps in the pram, if the blanket falls over his/her face, if there is snot dribbling from the baby's nose, if her hat is in his/her eyes or not covering his/her ears. They might not try to settle the baby if it cries, or not do it the way the baby is likely to respond to - my MIL never bothered asking or observing the particular likes or dislikes or habits of my DC because babies cry, that's what they do. They might not sterilise the bottle adequately etc etc...

Sure the baby would probably survive, but the baby's wellbeing should rank above PILs' desire to have an equal say, let alone to install themselves in the driving seat like OP's MIL seems to be threatening to do.

What I did was I simply accompanied MIL every time she took the baby out. She patently hated it, but the one time she pushed the pram home from the park (I had to run back for a shoe we lost en route) confirmed the wisdom of that practice, as the blanket had slipped off and the hat was in the baby's face.

What I would advise is to first of all talk with your DH and get him to your side about this being your house even when PILs are there. He needs to explain to your MIL in particular that she can have her way in your kitchen but this is your household to run, and she is being invitedto respect your habits and philosophy in raising your baby. Secondly, observe them once they are here - if they are trying to find out about your baby and the way you do things, to learn how they should act, you could probably relax and trust them more. If they are barging in without regard to you and the baby, then don't leave them alone with your DC and get your DH to explain the boundaries whenever necessary.

Good luck!

Hello.

Kids and PILS!

Been there, done that. So know how it is. Lived in a 2 bed (more like 1 1/2 bed) house with baby, hubby, Parents and PILS for a fair few months!!

Share your child. Let the child find out what it is like to have Grand parents around.

I remember being particularly cagey about sharing my first born. And now 11 years on, although I can understand my behaviour, I realise that my child will always be mine. Sharing doesn't mean it will not be yours.

I am glad I did not alienate my PILS and Parents by making unreasonable rules, I am glad I did not go with my first instinct of not sharing my child, I am glad my children both love their grand parents.

Think about it! Its only 5 weeks!

Oh, piss off. Being careful about crossing the road and not wanting dogs all over a newborn baby is NOT something you need to seek psychiatric help for. FFS.

Talking to someone about anxiety and control issues is very different from psychiatric help.

Get your facts straight.

What can I say? A couple of PILs for five weeks in a two bedroomed flat with a baby is a recipe for conflict. I would not be attempting this. But, if you do, remember that it is your baby and you decide, at all times. Do not hesitate to tell your PILs what they may and may not do. You are the boss.

I am shocked that so many of you have got this poor couple marked down as the PILs from hell without knowing much more about them than the fact that they are foreign(which seems to be a big black mark in itself) , a bit elderly and MIL has a dodgy knee and may try do what is probably accepted in her culture; i.e take over the running of the household to allow the new mum to get lots of rest and enjoy getting to know her baby.

I also think it's a bit ageist to assume that because they are in their 70s they will be a pair of doddering old nitwits who will be totally incapable of taking any part in looking after a young baby.

I completely agree.

It doesn't matter if they are indeed charming and lovely, 5 weeks is too long. I also think it's unrealistic to think that some people in their 70's are able to run around as much as others, if the MIL has a dodgy knee, she wouldn't be able to chase after a toddler- (not the issue now but will be)- and if she doesn't speak the language, it's harder for her (or the FIL) to take charge when they are out together, this is exactly what I've found with my 'foreign' in-laws, the issue isn't them being foreign, it's a combination of slightly older age, not remembering what to do with small children, language barrier and disability-it has added up to a combination where they can't and never could look after the children on their own.

Mine come for two weeks max and stay in a hotel and that is long enough for everyone.

Your biggest problem, to use a well-worn MN phrase, is your husband- I don't see the required necessary flexibility and support for you. Why couldn't they come for two weeks? The only excuse is if they lived in Australia and the flight would be too expensive and they wouldn't see you for several years. If it is in Europe, shorter breaks are fine.

Your husband has an idea about how you are going to all get on just fine, without him there. The truth is it will be hard work, even if they are lovely people and he's escaping it. Next time you will know better what you can and can't do- given your need for privacy when eating breakfast, I would venture this co-living arrangement with IL's is not going to be for you.

Me too.
So nasty and judgemental, you all know nothing about them or the situation yet there are endless posts telling them to "fuck right off" and how they shouldn't dare want to visit their son and grandson.

Ageist, rude, and a tinge racist, some of these replies.

Ageist, rude, and a tinge racist, some of these replies.

About to say the same thing.

By the way: I don't mean to offend any grandparents reading this thread. Of course many grandparents are fab, invaluable, wonderful and easy guests. maizie it just sounds like there is reason to suspect the OP's PILs may not be "be utterly charming and considerate people who do their very best to fit in and, in their own way, to make the visit as stressfree as possible" - otherwise the OP's "rules" would be observed as a matter of course rather than ridiculed for being unreasonable; they would ask OP if she would like help in the kitchen instead of declaring in advance that they will run the household etc.

Thanks everyone

Re the shower, it's a rented flat and bathroom walls are painted (not fully tiled) so can't put a higher bracket in as walls would get wet. Unless it's special paint that can get wet? The hose is long enough to stand but bracket is low. In their culture baths are considered unhygenic so stand-up shower is needed. Can't swop rooms as guestroom is too small to fit cot.

I'll think about bedroom lock though I imagine DH will say it's rude to 'lock them out'

Mistress, I do respect their culture and I want DS to understand his heritage. I'm learning their language and we speak to him in both languages. Not sure why you think I am 'looking down' on their culture! I simply said I need space and privacy, and that I can't trust people I don't know to be as careful with my son as I am. Also child-safety laws are very different in their country eg no car-seats, no pedestrian crossings etc.

I can cope with MIL taking over kitchen, cooking, rearranging my cupboards, cleaning, preparing weaning foods, feeding DS etc. I know she's looking forward to cooking (and teaching me new recipes). I want them to feel at home. She frequently tells DH what I should/shouldn't be eating while BF which I guess is her way of caring, it's mildly irritating but not doing any harm.

I'm also keen for them to have lots of interaction and cuddles with baby, family outings (with me present!) and if they want to read stories/change his outfits/nappies /brush his hair/trim his nails/sing/join in selected classes etc that's all fine. And I have no problem with them pushing buggy when we're out together. I just can't allow them to take him out without me (even with DH present) it just feels wrong.

at pps suggesting I get meds to cope with the anxiety. I've seriously considered it just for the 5weeks. Unfortunately you can't take diazepam or most anti-anxiety meds when BF. Unless anyone knows of one?

Re bedtime, DS won't settle unless all the lights are out and I rock him on my lap for an hour or so. He likes to feed intermittently and then passes out. So bedtime routine is really just sleepsuit, grow bag, cluster feeding and rocking in dark. If anyone comes into bedroom (even DH) he becomes alert and it takes longer.

I will try to yield, go with the flow and focus on positives I am happy DS has a big warm extended family to love him, something I've never had.
I really don't want them to feel unwelcome, but I also want to keep my sanity!