To have rules for guests, or am I being controlling?

[AnotherNc]

My PILs are coming to stay for 5weeks in our 2-bed flat
They are from a different country and culture, normal for family to come and help for few months after birth of a child. I've managed to delay the visit until DS is 6months!

I want to set some rules but DH thinks IABU. Would value your opinions.

1. I don't want them to take DS out of flat without me.
2. As they will use our en-suite for showers (other bathroom only has low-level shower) I want them to set a time for this rather than tramp in and out of our bedroom when DS is napping/BF/I'm trying to have a break. I need some privacy!
3. I plan to invite them to some baby classes but not all. I feel it's inappropriate for them to observe baby yoga or swimming as other mums may feel awkward!
4. Some days I want to take DS out for day without PILs.
5. I want to do all bedtime routines, he's hard to settle so I don't want them coming into our bedroom after 8pm.
6. I don't want them to bath him without me (I have anxiety re him being left unattended for few secs).
7. DH wants to do a mini-break but I can't face a long drive with PILs as I will have to sit in back with no space and I get carsick in the back.
8. I hate family breakfasts. I want to be able to grab some toast/coffee after the 7am feed then get showered and dressed before facing anyone. DH thinks this is rude.

So... AIBU? So as not to drip feed they don't speak much English so DH will have to translate the 'rules'.

Mostly they seem fine. I would probably let them take baby out without you, but generally they are just normal boundaries, especially those re your bedroom and space.

With the breakfast, I'm not sure DH is suggesting you serve them breakfast, in which case HIBU. He can do it if so important.

Re the car trip, can you drive? That would put an end to the carsick problem. Agree knees would be the same in back. Also even if someone is taller you can move the front seat forward and give them more room behind you, so it is no reason for an extra need to go in the front (just putting this bit in generally because it is a common "tall people myth")

Have any sexist/traditional background MN ers ever married laid back liberals whose parents don't visit much and prefer the Travelodge when they do? And don't expect hospitality to fall to the woman?

YANBU to want to put in place some boundaries. Rather than making it a definite list- you must make sure that your DH understands what your anxiety is telling you might happen and why, for your health and happiness they need to do as you ask.

They are in their 70's and from what you say MIL isn't physically 100%. They don't know the area in which you live, they don't speak English very well. I can fully understand why you would put that the first condition in place.

Second one- your DH needs to sort out the low level shower so they can use that bathroom to save on them invading your space. And you need to put a lock on your door if MIL already has boundary issues which I am surmising from your use of the phrase "DH has said his mum will 'want to run our household' "

As for the mini break. DH can take his parents away for the weekend on his own and you get breathing spce with your DS.

YABU and sound like a nightmare.

He's there grandchild! Let them be involved. Especially if they live far away

Morris, this is how things are done in other cultures. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean that it should or will stop happening.

Probably why they come for lengthy stays, is that they have to travel quite a distance in the first place, and at 70 years old cannot be expected to travel regularly. So it could be the one and only time they come to UK. Chances are it will be up to OP and her dh to travel to their home with the baby next time.

Giving them a list of 'rules' is bound to put backs up, and puts barriers in place that don't need to be (it may not occur to them to want to bath him alone, for example...) (Although 5 weeks? You're a saint!) instead, I would just present some things as 'how we do it', and others, just settle them into a routine:

1. Don't state this up front, wait and see how they are. In the early days, easy to say you want to be with them/ds is getting used to them.If all goes well, you may feel happy with them taking ds for a walk in the pram later on
2. rather than setting a time, get an internal lock - just lock when you need. Ask them when they prefer to have a shower (morning/eve?) and settle them into a routine - "shower is free now, go ahead" at the same time every day will soon get things sorted
3. Grandparents observing (or indeed, joining in) baby swimming was totally normal in 'my day' - maybe say that you'll ask at the first class and see what people say? Might be that you suggest only one attend? I think this might be a nice (non verbal) way to bond.
4. Just set up some meet-ups with friends etc - get dh to let them know that as they are here for such a long time, you'll have chores/friends/stuff to do so won't be around to entertain them. Make sure he says this in advance, and often when they are here
5. Just tell them that, that's sensible
6. Fine - no need for a rule, just join them in the bathroom
7. Do somewhere closer/get two cars (even better!)? How long is the journey?
8. Fine, just do it, but make sure your PIL feel welcomed at breakfast.

Are you 100% sure there is no way you can swop bedrooms? I would hate the idea of my PIL in and out of 'my bathroom/bedroom. Could you update the shower (not a huge job?) or squeeze into the little bedroom (might also negate the bedtime issue)

I can see why you're setting rules if they're going to come and take over. I'd probably just talk them through with DH and the make sure they're mentioned as they come up.
I don't think you should have to put up with being bossed about in your own home. When you go and visit them does everything get done the way you like?

YANBU - if your guests were the kind of people that you felt would respect your boundaries this would be way OTT, but it sounds like you already know that they aren't, and that DH won't back you up. They're his parents - if he can only be around for 2 weeks, why does he expect you to host them for five?

You need to talk to DH about this now, because if he doesn't understand your anxiety and won't support you, it's going to be hell.

You might want to see someone for your levels of anxiety and control tendencies.

1. I don't want them to take DS out of flat without me.
   YABU - but you could ask that they always let you know before going out, and when to expect them back.

2. As they will use our en-suite for showers (other bathroom only has low-level shower) I want them to set a time for this rather than tramp in and out of our bedroom when DS is napping/BF/I'm trying to have a break. I need some privacy!
   YANBU

3. I plan to invite them to some baby classes but not all. I feel it's inappropriate for them to observe baby yoga or swimming as other mums may feel awkward!
   YANBU

4. Some days I want to take DS out for day without PILs.
   YANBU

5. I want to do all bedtime routines, he's hard to settle so I don't want them coming into our bedroom after 8pm.
   YANBTotallyU, but maybe allow cuddles before bedtime (maybe before going into the bedroom), or a story before going into the cot, at least some nights.

6. I don't want them to bath him without me (I have anxiety re him being left unattended for few secs).
   YABabitU - does DH bath him alone? Do it with them a couple of times and then try to step back a few times as well.

7. DH wants to do a mini-break but I can't face a long drive with PILs as I will have to sit in back with no space and I get carsick in the back.
   It is your car so you are allowed sit in the front. Or else try to find another option that gives everyone enough space, rent a car or go by train?

8. I hate family breakfasts. I want to be able to grab some toast/coffee after the 7am feed then get showered and dressed before facing anyone. DH thinks this is rude.
   YANBU as long as there are plenty of breakfast things there for PIL to help themselves.

For a 5 week visit , I agree its not about rules but laying down boundaries for them.

So let them know where things are and how to help themselves to tea, coffee, and that you tend to not be sociable in the early mornings so help themselves then too.

I wouldn't let DMIL completely "take over" the kitchen, yes let her cook if she wants but not rearranging as it is your house.

Have some ideas in your own mind at least about things they can do that don't need your involvement - so the morning that you go to baby swimming classes, there is an interesting talk in the local library/what about this historic place to visit/do you want me to drop you somewhere in particular...type of chat rather than banning them from coming. And point out that they and the other mothers may all be uncomfortable with them there, but that you will bring them to X other event with you and DS later this week.

Get yourself a good book that you want to read before mat leave ends or while you have a chance to sit back and let them have some snuggles with DS (or bring him to the local park etc). And allow yourself go to the living room, or even your bedroom, to take some time out for yourself. Maybe even, once they are settled, you can leave them at home/going to park while you go for coffee and your book or meet a friend and catch up.

Good luck.

Definitely fix shower - just a bracket higher on the wall would do, or accept higher bills from more baths. They may be happy to squat in the bath to shower anyway - as a pp said, you don't have to provide perfect accommodation.

If your dh continues not to take your concerns seriously, and not reassure and empathise with you, I'd suggest moving with the baby into the smaller room and bed sharing, he can snuggle up with mum and dad or kip on the sofa.

You do need a bedroom you can retreat to, with a bolt on the door.

How old is your DS? I'm just asking because you sound very protective, I think you'll feel differently when he's 6 months. I definitely wouldn't present them with a list of rules just mention things like 'oh would you mind showering in the morning/afternoon instead' or 'I'd like to sit in the front if we go on this break, is that ok?' If you want to be there 24/7 watching them like a hawk that's fine bit controlling but I think it's a bit unreasonable to say they can't do things with him.

Presenting a list of rules to guests is unreasonable and unwelcoming - not the tone you want to strike at the start of a 5 week visit! I would raise these with PIL as and when they come up, rather than as "house rules". (Also, other things might come up whilst they are here that you haven't thought of yet!). Agree with pp though, the point of the visit is for them to get to know their DGS so you should let them be involved with him as much as possible. Think of it from DS's point of view too, you want him to love his grandparents!

The person that needs to understand your rules is your DH so he can help you manage the situations as they arise and support what you have set as boundaries. MIL shouldn't be running your household whilst here or rearranging your cupboards, that's bizarre and unreasonable and you will need DH to tell her when she is stepping over the line.

I don't think you point 1 is unreasonable at all, given that PILs have limited English and don't know the area. I wouldn't feel comfortable with them on their own with DC in that situation either in case something happened. Would you have an issue if DH was also out with them, or is it just that you are personally not there?

Also, I would reconsider the mini break if I was you - you might be desperate for a change of scenery / getting them out of the house after a couple of weeks!

You might want to see someone for your levels of anxiety and control tendencies.

I agree. Internet diagnosis and all, I know, but I am very careful crossing roads, avoiding places with loose dogs etc. I can't trust them to be as careful as me is... somewhat OTT. It's completely normal to want to protect and be with your baby, but surely at 6mo his grandparents can be trusted to take him out for a fifteen minute walk around the block?

They are coming with the intention of taking over. You don't want them to take over. It's honestly best that they don't stay with you at all, if you don't want them taking over.

Please don't let them come to baby swimming etc. I used to take DD swimming and it upset me that grandparents were allowed to watch us in the pool and take pictures. I felt it was intrusive.

Get a hook for your shower hose so they can stand under it. I'd hate people tramping in and out of our entirely imaginary at this stage ensuite too.

Baby classes - are you sure they'll want to attend? But if there isn't a proper space for spectators then of course YANBU to not invite them.

The rest is your anxiety talking I'm afraid. What do you think a loose dog would do if he came upon two elderly people pushing a buggy? He may jump up on PILs but he won't harm your child. Why do you assume people from another culture wouldn't be doubly careful crossing the road? There's a lot of assumptions wrapped up in anxiety which isn't good for you or the baby.

When do they arrive OP? Do you have time to get a bolt put on your bedroom door, see if you can alter the shower height [poss not even an option if the bath is under the eaves]. Sharing an en suite is tedious but older people often don't shower daily and you may find that you don't have them traipsing through all the time.

DH has said his mum will 'want to run our household'
You have two choices - you can view it as a holiday from all things domestic for 5 weeks and take a step back, and simply put your foot down that you want to prepare weaning food for DC1; or you can make it clear to your husband that he needs to support you in not being bullied in your own home. There are no winners - in the second scenario you will spend 5 weeks running around catering and cleaning while they spend time with your DC.

Mini-break - yes definitely. Somewhere with more space and something to do/change of scene might be a very good idea. Somewhere like Oxford, Bath, Cambridge, Edinburgh, York where they can be off entertaining themselves. Not somewhere deeply rural. Hire a car unless yours is huge. 4 adults plus car seat, baggage and travel cot etc is a ton of stuff. It's the UK so it's not like you can just pack a bikini and a sarong in a large handbag

Just laugh at your DH when he suggests that you can send out your DC1 with a sippy cup of cooling breastmilk. That comment alone just suggests to me that he is being a dickhead and is also probably a bit fed up with you having a stroke about the visit [sorry].

With the best will in the world, 6mo babies aren't that interesting. You don't have to chase after them, they can't do much at soft play, etc. They do like to be held and entertained a lot which with 70+ yr old grandparents sounds ideal to be honest. I saw quite a few baffled visiting grandparents coming to stuff like baby sensory etc around that age. I doubt very much they will want to come to a swimming pool with you !

One option which worked very well for me with my parents [who keep a completely different timetable and are generally pain in the ass guests] is to write up your typical routine so they know that you are heading out by 9.30am every morning to do something. That you will be back by 12 to give lunch, bf and put your baby down for a snooze. That 3-5 is the magic window to hold their DGD and ooh and ah, or to take him out for a walk post feed and give you an hour to yourself.

Watch and observe and hold your horses. I got a lot of this sort of "my mum's raised X kids" from DH in the early days. Then he witnessed her about to take our PFB out in 30 degree heat in the middle of the day with no hood up on the pram, sunscreen or sun hat on, water or changing bag. He's a lot more wary about assuming that nothing has been forgotten now.

Morris, this is how things are done in other cultures. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean that it should or will stop happening.

The OP's DH has no right to force his culture on the OP like this.

Especially since he'll be buggering off to work for 3 of the 5 weeks his parents are staying in the 2 bedroom flat.

I think you are being a bit unreasonable but I understand where you are coming from. 5 weeks is a VERY long time to have house guests and it is probably appropriate to manage some of their expectations, but from your list it sounds as though you don't want them there at all and if you present them with a list of 'rules' they will sense that straightaway.

I would certainly try to establish what they expect in terms of meals and day to day activities: you can't be expected to spend all day every day with them, it will drive you all nuts. It sounds like your MIL wants to pitch in with the cooking and stuff though and I think you should allow this with good grace. Put yourself in their shoes: they have a grandchild who they really want to build a relationship with and you need to facilitate this for his and their sake. It's good for everyone if you have a good relationship with in-laws.

God, 5 weeks though...

some thoughts:

1. re BF YANBU - my 2 were BF and never took BM I had expressed from a bottle or sippy cup. Neither of them were interested and I had no inclination to force them. You don't have to do this so they can take the baby out. Just say he is BF on demand and so that involves you being around each other, which you are happy with.

2. Just get them to use the other bathroom. Do not invite them to use ensuite. They will cope. Is there a bath - they can have baths?

3. why invite them to any baby classes?

4. I really don't think you need a rule to be able to spend some time doing what you want without them.

5. again no rule required especially if you have sorted #2

6. I think you should let them bath him sometimes and work on your anxiety here (try relaxing with a glass of wine while they bath him :))

7. why do you have to sit in the back? Just sit in the front if you get carsick.

8. YANBU but perhaps have the odd breakfast with them? again no "rule" required surely?

I sympathise with the OP. I think she simply doesn't want this visit to happen - understandably enough, given that she will be sharing a small space with people with whom she doesn't share a language for a long period - anticipates a culture clash in terms of grandparental/visiting parent roles that she isn't easily able to rectify because of the language, and is hoping to establish ground rules at the outset to make the whole thing bearable.

And it's obvious she doesn't entirely trust her PILs to take the baby out, and for that I don't blame her, either, especially if they don't speak the language and aren't familiar with where she lives. My PILs and parents (not from this country but native English speakers) caused me similar concerns when my three year old was a baby, on grounds of age, lack of familiarity with cultural norms and suggestibility/gullibility. All four are so easily cowed by 'authority' that if someone in a hi-vis jacket showed up and said he needed to take DS somewhere for his own safety, they would hand him over. Asking for ID would never occur to any of them.

We've had to have lots of conversations about when it's appropriate to intervene if an older child starts being unpleasant to him in the playground etc. And about appropriate behaviour around dogs - I am training my dog-loving DS to be sensibly cautious around unleashed strange dogs, rather than running right at them to pat them - whereas my parents are too afraid of 'looking unfriendly' to restrain him if a dog owner says 'Oh, Rex is friendly.' Etc Etc.

But I suppose the primary thing is that the PILS genuinely believe they are here to help with the new baby, as is normal for their culture, and presumably won't realise their visit is not only not helpful to the OP, but a serious encroachment on her privacy and pace of mind.

OP, you need to talk to your husband. Why is this lengthy visit happening when you clearly don't want it to, or why does it involve staying with you, rather than in a hotel/rental etc? Obviously, it's nice for grandparents to spend time with their grandchild, but it sounds as if this has been imposed on you.

Yabu. 5 weeks sounds like a long time, but in the grand scheme of life it's not long.

I'm a western culture, but have seen a lot of what other cultures offer, through my work, and whilst different (and I'm sure annoying at times) it it is actually quite beautiful,and what a great chance to get to know your in laws better.

Maybe make sure you get yourself out for a walk every day by yourself, or with DS to give yourself abit of space to get through it.

I hope you can find it enjoyable .

I think you should go to the doctor about your anxiety.