to send SIL a legal 'cease and desist' letter? (screenshots)

[SILismad]

Ever since I met DH, he has told me she is 'mad' and 'crazy' and I've heard his other siblings say the same but I didn't really understand what he meant until the last 12 months. She seemed a bit eccentric but I liked her and encouraged him to keep contact when he wasn't really in the mood to answer texts etc.

The problem is it seems to be cyclical (mood swings bordering on mania) and DH deals with it by going to ground and not responsing to contact. (He deals with all the family in the same way, in fact; They are a big family with several 'big' characters.) DH has had some work issues in the last two years and a lot of stress and he has become even less inclined to engage with her (just a dminished pot of mental energy, I think). The more he's withdrawn, the more she has pushed, suggesting about a dozen joint holidays in the last year, periodically texting incessantly, that kind of thing.

Which sets the scene for "THE PROBLEM"

Having had minimal (text only) response from him for a few months, it seems she took it into her head that he was dead and someone was impersonating him by text. Cue a flurry of weird texts and weepy voicemails asking if he was alive and who was texting her.

He got irritated with this and - after one phone call to show he was in fact alive - went back to text only mode and refused to budge from it.

All this has culminated this week in a further collection of texts and emails outlining an entire paranoid interpretation of the situation in which I am "abusing" him and preventing him from having contact with his family, am reading his texts etc.

This was all delivered on a very confident, said-as-fact, intervention type tone.

I think I've reached my breaking point with her.

DH has told her by text that he is now severing contact and has again refused to 'phone to confirm his continued survival and is FUMING (angrier than I've ever seen him), but she has sent further texts of the 'I'm here whan you need me' kind.

We're both exhausted and can't decide whether to follow up with a legal letter.

WWYD?

Just dropping by to offer OP sympathy. This woman is not your responsibility and it's perfectly all right to cut and block contact with someone who will not stop pestering you. Whether this woman is mentally ill or an attention-seeking, bullying twat or a combination of the two, there is nothing you can do to help her so stick to looking after yourself and your family.

And it's worth bearing in mind that people can have MH issues and be shits. There's an individual I have known for over 20 years who is both mentally ill and horrible. He's also one of these who presents as functional despite his delusions and paranoia (and entitlement and spite and fondness for low-key stalking), so nothing can be done about him except to keep away.

OP, another one with lots of bipolar disorder in the family, and your SIL does sound very familiar.

As others have said, if she won't acknowledge the problem there is little you can do. There's a book called the unquiet mind by a psychologist with bipolar which gives a good insight.

I think all you can do is cut off contact or manage it carefully as you currently are. It doesn't make you or your DH uncaring, people with this disorder will suck you dry if you set no boundaries. Her poor DH, he's the only one with any prospect of getting her any help or treatment and it sounds like he's utterly in denial.

firesidechat
2) she does something spectacular and gets herself sectioned. That's about it.

This is what finally got a siblings MiL sectioned, It was spectatular, major and involved the police.

To say that the family need to help is very simplistic, it is soul destroying and exhausting to be put in that position and sometimes you have to leave for your wellbeing and the wellbeing of loved ones, including those that need the help.

Hygge that all sounds familiar to xx

He gets very stressed just hearing the text alert sound

I can't give advice about your SIL, but I do have experience with this. In my case it was a friend, but I didn't realise just how bad my anxiety was getting when my phone went. Even after I finally blocked her, I'd still get anxious as anything everytime someone messaged me. It took a while but I don't worry so much any more now. If you and your DH can change your numbers it would probably help him a lot - maybe leave one existing she knows, but then only have that on a certain times?

One of DH's friends went lie this. I'm convinced she has issues but her paranoia made any friendship impossible, although in her head it was perfectly reasonable to expect us to maintain a friendship knowing she didn't like me/thought I was controlling my DH. My SIL made a one off comment to the same effect but more because she idealises her family life than mental ill health - she believed their upbringing was idilyic and was close to her brother, DH remembers being hit, humiliated and his sister absolutely hating him. And SIL was rarely available when we tried to see her. I suggested making her godmother thinking it would make her closer to us but it didn't and then I'm accused of stopping him seeing his family.

The thing that was a factor was DH's passivity, he was easy going and would often agree or do things for an easy life. He wasn't the same with me and would tell me to piss off if he didn't want to do something I asked eg housework or an outing. Their image of him being a bit of a doormat wasn't the reality in our marriage, nor would I want it to be. He's also lazy about keeping in touch, I often pushed for visits to the friend and family, but since the above incidents I've not been involved and unsurprisingly we see them much less. There is definitely a lack of understanding family life from his sister too. I've left it to DH and I don't see his family now, other reasons exist. I'm not sure you can change anything and it's a shame it feels like you are the only one thinking about this. Your DH needs to take control but you may not be able to help.

can you silence the texting sound or even remove the texting facility? I did.

Can I just ask - has there been a fairly recent change in how sectioning works then? Because I also know of a lady who was sectioned against her will; her DH had to do it because she was going to hurt either herself, him or their children. She was literally dragged to the ambulance and pushed in, she was clinging on to the edges to stop them shutting the doors for as long as she could (small woman but with the immense strength that can come with some mental illness) and she was kept in hospital for some months. I know this is true because both he and she told me, separately.

I'm quite disturbed at wilde's (and others') stories of people being in the depths of quite dangerous delusions and no one being able to do anything about it - that's really appalling :(

OP - not much to add except that my godmother was mentally unwell; originally bipolar but she was an early "victim" of electroshock and chemical treatments at Tooting Bec in the 1960s, and it made her far worse :(. Her DH tried, oh how he tried, but in the end he couldn't deal with it and they divorced, although he remained in contact with her and still helped her when he could. She was in a mental hospital for many years (until Thatcher closed them down) and then in an assisted living facility. This was when she had access to a phone, and called me one day. The conversation was utterly bizarre - I'd sent her a Christmas card (hand drawn) and firstly she accused me of sending her satanic creations, then went on to say that she was writing a book, but the words were coming from aliens not on this planet. I was only about 18 or 19 at the time, and found the conversation VERY difficult to deal with, especially as whatever I said, she found another meaning for than the one I'd actually meant, so kept turning on me. I knew she was unwell, we'd visited her in the mental hospital when she was in there, and she'd been to our house a few times; but still, so hard not to be hurt by the accusations she was throwing at me, even when they made no sense.

So my point is that I can understand why your DH feels he can't talk to her on the phone, especially if she's in the throes of delusions - it's incredibly difficult because it's likely that she turns everything she "hears" into something else.

I can only speak for the US and I'm not sure if that's where wilde is. But she's basically correct in saying that unless a person represents a danger to themselves or to another person, they cannot be put on what we call here a '5150'. That's an involuntary 72 hr psychiatric hold. You can be delusional. You can be accusing others of horrible crimes or conspiracies. You can think you're Jesus Christ, Hitler, or Madonna. But if you are in your own home, unless you actually threaten bodily harm to another person or threaten to commit suicide or to injure yourself, there's not much they can do. If you are out in public or in another person's home or business, the police can arrest you for disturbing the peace or trespass, but it would be treated the same as any other crime. Arrest, bail hearing, post bail, you're out.

Even if someone is 5150'd it is almost impossible to keep them past the 72 hours if they don't want to stay. We managed it with my brother but only because he had threatened suicide and I agreed to sign a legal document that there wasn't a single person who was willing or able to take responsibility for him (i.e. watch him so he didn't attempt suicide again). It was really hard to know that they would have to tell him that his own sister refused to take care of him.

"This is the thing, I don't know if it is something she truly believes. I can't get a good sense of that."
...
"The issue of whether she really believes I am abusing him or is saying it to manipulate is like an itch, though. It seems key to understanding."
Addressing just this issue...
It's been my experience when dealing with people that it's generally easier when you assume the best of everybody.
Even if you can't actually do anything to change her behaviour it might make it easier to cope in your own mind if you run with the narrative that she's acting this way because she can't help it.

My adopted dad was emotionally abusive due to an undiagnosed (but really F-ing obvious) personality disorder of some sort, and telling myself that he couldn't help it didn't change the way I dealt with him - I went completely no contact several years before he died, for my own self-preservation (I have mental health issues of my own, including bipolar) - but it did help me to not take his behaviour personally.

I have a friend who is delusional. She is clean, feeds herself & dresses herself etc & therefore cannot have any help forced on her. Having a very limited grip on reality is not enough for sectioning.

It's very sad, but I can't fix her. When I became the subject of her delusions I told her I had no idea what she was talking about & then left it. She later became more lucid (for now anyway, I hope she has followed advice & sought treatment).

If your DH is being bombarded with texts I would keep one number for her, & maybe that phone stays at home & could be checked by you if it is making him ill. Then get a new number for eveyone else. Contain her. It's probably best to talk to her about it when she is between episodes. I can get somewhere with my friend (encourage her to seek help for her 'anxiety') when she is relatively well, but she cannot hear anything said to her when she is delusional.

It sounds hard OP, but neither you nor DH can fix her. I do think it is worth remembering that she is ill though & it is the illness that drives all this.

I'm in the UK by the way. England specifically.

OP, IME she definitely sounds ill but not ill enough to be sectioned if you ever managed to get her assessed, particularly as her DH seems to be in denial. He is her Nearest Relative under the Mental Health Act and, even if your DH requested an assessment under the Act, if her husband didn't want her sectioned, they wouldn't do it unless she posed an immediate risk to herself or others.
As a mental health professional, I'm really sorry to hear people's experiences of trying to get help. However, I would like to point out that people don't have to commit a crime or be a danger to themselves or others to be sectioned. In the UK, someone can be detained 'in the interest of his/her health'. We recently sectioned a girl who hadn't left her bedroom for 6 months - her mum was taking in food and she had a bucket for a toilet. She was very delusional but not suicidal or aggressive.

It is worth repeating, so I am.

There are a lot of 'holier than thou' posters on this thread, urging the OP and her dh to 'do something to help' when it just isn't possible. What the OP is describing isn't considered a crisis because no-one is in iminent danger (and even if they were it wouldn't surprise me if there was still no help to be had).

OP - it's a tragic situation but you need to protect yourself and your dh.

Mentally ill people are sectioned against their will, but they have to do something criminal for that to happen

That has not been my experience when I worked in an acute psychiatric ward and went out with Doctors to bring people into hospital. Not saying of course this is not your experience! I am in Scotland and are aware we have a different mental health act than England. I am away from the wards for years now but people could be sectioned under the MH Act if they were a danger to themselves or others, they did not need to have committed a criminal act. Obviously if they did and Police were concerned about their mental health this could be the case.

Right enough, where are the screenshots OP!?

I have experience of Bipolar from helping out a friend whose ex wife was herself mentally ill during the time of their break up. She caused untold distress to him, their kids & anyone else remotely connected to them who tried to help by fabricating all kinds of stories and tales of domestic abuse. As many others have said, getting the person to realise & accept that they are unwell in the first place is quite a challenge & then getting them any kind of help can be even harder. Even if you understand that their behaviour is a result of their illness, people with these problems can be very destructive & maipulative alienating themselves from the people who are trying to help them in the first place.

OP I think it would be a good idea to try & persuade your OH to attempt to get his sister some help with her problems, but if she is not willing to accept it you won't get very far. Although you didn't put it across very well at the start I do sympathise with you.