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Original poster

To think that this is the end of women's athletics?

1000 replies

fidel1ne · 23/01/2016 21:38

And women's international sport generally?

Transgender competitors will be allowed to compete as the gender of their choosing pre-operatively and after just one year of hormone treatment.

OP posts:
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TheFallenMadonna · 25/01/2016 20:32

Leaving the trans thing for one moment, your comments about lesbians are pretty shocking.
And we won't go there with "masculine" (do you mean strong?) looking women.

Mummyusername · 25/01/2016 20:33

I presume hermione as women we can't conceive of this " mentally female" thing as we take it for granted just as I'm sure decades ago many heterosexual married people couldn't conceive of how someone could have a compulsion that they could only have sex with people of the same sex as them. They didn't need to ever think about what their sexual preference was as what they had was the norm.

JessicasRabbit · 25/01/2016 20:33

mummy, your analogy to homophobia is incorrect. The correct analogy would be people saying that gay people were born in the wrong body and giving gay men drugs to change their hormone levels. Actually, giving gay men drugs to alter their hormone levels was done and is now considered barbaric. When all along we should have never tried to suggest that how someone feels inside (ie who they're attracted to) is in any way linked to their biological sex.

With trans stuff, it's gone a whole step further (probably because surgery has advanced). And we (as a society) are AGAIN trying to say that people's feelings and personalities should match up to their genitalia. It's fucking depressing.

How hard is it to acknowledge that people feel a million different things, and trying to match up feelings with genitalia is a stupid idea?

venusinscorpio · 25/01/2016 20:34

At the moment, I feel that relaxing the rules to this extent is not necessarily a bad thing. As more and more MtFs succeed in sport, more people are going to start asking questions. Imagine the response if an MtF wins Wimbledon...

I agree, eventually this will eat itself. So much of it is patently absurd. People won't be able to dismiss and ignore it forever. I just worry what extent it will get to before that point and what it will mean for women and children falsely pegged as trans.

And I worry that taking the language away from us removes our ability to name the problem, and means that we will no longer have reliable statistics of the extent of male violence to women and societal discrimination against women.

Katenka · 25/01/2016 20:34

I don't really see how that's more reasonable than someone saying they don't want lesbians in the changing room because lesbians fancy women, are usually more butch than hetero women and therefore are likely to make a successful attack on hetero women.

they are women. How many lesbians attack women and commit violent crime?

How many men and TW commit violent crime against women?

Stop calling women butch, ffs.

OhShutUpThomas · 25/01/2016 20:34

Mummy
This isn't about being anti-trans.

It's about the gross unfairness of people who are biologically female being forced to compete against people who are biologically male.

HTH.

OhShutUpThomas · 25/01/2016 20:35

And I'm totally ignoring the ridiculous homophobic comments - don't want to derail the thread..!

HermioneWeasley · 25/01/2016 20:36

mummy I don't understand your explanation.

I know I am a woman because I have a woman's body. Other than that I feel like .....a person. What makes you "feel like a woman" apart from your body?

Even when I am wearing jeans and no make up, I am still a woman and recognisably so. There is no way to be a man or a woman except by way of your biology.

kua · 25/01/2016 20:41

I don't give a flying fuck if a lesbian does my smear test. She'll know what I'm experiencing.

Mummy you have no clue of what you speak.

GarlicBake · 25/01/2016 20:43

Well done your DD, bloodyteenagers Star

I've come out as terfy now - FB, Twitter, the lot. Everyone who knows me knows I'm not remotely anti-trans*, and any ensuing argument with folks who think I am will, I hope, engage a few more brains on the matter.

Mummy - from the ages of 17 to 21 I was trans fat. I had anorexia with body dysmorphia. I identified as fat. Very fat. Should I have been given fat transplants to make my body match, had my uterus removed because I didn't want periods, and been provided with a whole wardrobe of size 20 clothes?

Or should I have been, you know, helped to understand I had an illness and encouraged not to starve to death?

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 25/01/2016 20:44

mummyusername
Actually, male and female brains are not a new concept. They are an ancient concept that has been used across almost every culture in the world to oppress female people (women). There are, in fact, no differences between male and female brains apart from those which develop through socialisation, and those which are due to the effects of sex hormones.

I do believe that people with excesses of the opposite sex hormones can experience a level of dysphoria/sex confusion. However that simply doesn't make them the opposite sex. A feminine man with low testosterone and higher oestrogen is still a man. And in fact most trans women aren't feminine men and start out with perfectly average testosterone levels so that's not an explanation that stands up.

kua · 25/01/2016 20:47

Anyhoo, I part derailed there..

Has anyone seen any posts from those that will be affected from the ruling?

I've seen one, I don't want to out her but she is very concerned.

bloodyteenagers · 25/01/2016 20:47

Mummy - did you watch the fight with FF? I suggest you do. Watch it and then come back and say a man competing against a female, who by your definition should be masculine because the actual female is a
Sports women who is also a lesbian, is fair. Watch it and come back and tell us how there is no difference.

It's a fucking disgrace. It was a one sided fight and expect to see more of not worse now this ridiculous ruling has been implemented.

You really think in a few decades people will be saying wow, the bigotry back then was immense... Or, wtf were they thinking. They Let a man beat on a woman and
People paid to watch this shit?

Mummyusername · 25/01/2016 20:55

Well done on your recovery garlicbake. Just because your illness was a mental illness doesn't mean transgenderism is (though it could be, I and u don't know)
I don't know where I even implied that i have any problem whatsoever with lesbians in a cervical smear testing or any other non-sexual scenario kua

Inertia · 25/01/2016 20:58

It occurs to me that perhaps the way to influence opinion on sports governing bodies is to raise concerns with the sponsors- I'd imagine that women make up a significant proportion of the customer base of Proctor and Gamble, or Coca-Cola, who are 2016 Olympics partners.

Katenka · 25/01/2016 20:58

Our Sensei called a meeting with the parents of our dojo, before training today.

Parents of all children, boys and girls, have agreed to boycott any competitions that try to allow TW to compete against women.

At the adults class all men and women were in agreement too.

The men were as equally outraged as the women and understood the detrimental impact it would have on female participation in the sport.

It's not difficult to grasp.

The disgusting language regarding lesbians and fit women from mummy has really shocked me.

I can't believe anyone thinks body shaming people, especially women is ok.

It's even more difficult to believe this comes from a woman. Wtf is going on!

Several years ago a group claimed that peodophilia should be legal as that was just simply their sexual preference. The same as being gay or straight. They couldn't help it and they were being persecuted the same as gay people used to be.

Should we allow this? Because that's just how they feel? Never mind what happens to the children? Never mind how much it damages them and infringes their rights?

venusinscorpio · 25/01/2016 21:00

Why would Garlic's condition be considered a mental illness and transgenderism not? You're the one with all the logic, mummy. Go on.

oneowlgirl · 25/01/2016 21:01

That's good to hear Kat.

Targeting the sponsors is also a good idea as I'd happily boycott products if that made a difference. How can we make that happen?

cantthinkofawittyusername · 25/01/2016 21:02

Could someone, please, help me find the statistics on transwomen committing crime at the same rate as men? I've read it on several treads so far and would be very intersted in the studies, but couldn't find it!

kua · 25/01/2016 21:02

don't really see how that's more reasonable than someone saying they don't want lesbians in the changing room because lesbians fancy women, are usually more butch than hetero women and therefore are likely to make a successful attack on hetero women.

You are the only one that brought this issue to the fore.

TheMouseThatRoared · 25/01/2016 21:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

venusinscorpio · 25/01/2016 21:06

You certainly can't argue with that level of stupid.

kua · 25/01/2016 21:06

Agreed, so back to us , anyone know any female Olympic athletes?

kua · 25/01/2016 21:12

Twitter is your friend.Wink

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