To think that this is the end of women's athletics?

[fidel1ne]

And women's international sport generally?

Transgender competitors will be allowed to compete as the gender of their choosing pre-operatively and after just one year of hormone treatment.

Being more masculine that the average woman is the sort of advantage female athletes usually have.

What a pile of rubbish!

Firstly female athletes are not masculine. They are females that tend to have a larger amount of muscle than the average female.

I fucking hate it when people call women who are fit 'masculine'. They are fit women with muscle. It's not masculine and to say that is derogatory and body shaming. It's not different than calling someone a fatty.

Secondly, they are women. Biologically female. Male bodies are different, no amount of dress wearing or claiming that they were born in the wrong body changed that they have physical advantages over women.

And it will chase women, actual women and girls out of sport.

Just because there isn't evidence yet doesn't mean something can't be.i don't know - let's say a male embryo gets too much of a hormone or toxin from the environment that makes him grow mentally in a way a female should.
The anti-trans rhetoric just sits very uncomfortably with me because it seems analogous to homophobia decades ago.A nice Good Person heterosexual in 1966 could very well think that biologically it is quite clear that the male of the species and the female of the species are meant to procreate with each other. Whatever any homosexual might feel in their mind, biologically it is a fact that homosexuality is abnormal. In fact wasn't it classed as a mental illness at the time and sodomy illegal til 1967?
Everything is so clear in hindsight so how can you be sure the anti-trans thinking isn't seen as universally bigoted as homophobia is seen today?

Put the crack pipe down mummyusername!

That anti-trains thinking won't be seen in a few decades as universally bigoted as homophobia is today

"let's say a male embryo gets too much of a hormone or toxin from the environment that makes him grow mentally in a way a female should."

See my post. The body is not what is "faulty" in this situation.

The anti-trans rhetoric just sits very uncomfortably with me because it seems analogous to homophobia decades ago.

And paedophilia and incest are still not accepted. Should we be all for those now because we used to be more homophobic as a society than we are now?

Statements like this one indicate you don't really believe men can be women. You are simply going along with the cult so you will seem like a Good Person.

mummy Can you explain what is mentally a female?

Well you're hardly suggesting they try to change their brains instead? noone wants to change who they feel they are.

Yep, i am wholeheartedly suggesting brain-transplants

Mummy, I know you're slightly hard of thinking and that your reading comprehension isn't what it could be so I'll write it in little words.

No one hates trans people.

What we are concerned about is the way that MtT people want to decide what woman means.

That they are being enabled to erase women.

But yay you for being on the side of some truly vicious woman haters on the internet. How proud you must be to be on the same side as a man who thinks that all women deserve to be punched to keep them quiet.

Go you!

You have had your mistakes explained to you by people who are obviously better informed than you.

Good point kua. I hear a lot about being "mentally/emotionally female" but what does at really mean? And in every single damn article I read about trans kids it seems to come down to boys liking dolls and pink or girls who like trucks and climbing trees. Have we really not evolved as a society when we put such gendered expectations on children?

"That anti-trains thinking won't be seen in a few decades as universally bigoted as homophobia is today"

I think that this period will be looked back on with disbelief. Putting children through hormone therapy and permanently altering their bodies is barbaric. Studies show that 60-90% of trans children do not identify as trans as adults. Most are just gay. There is going to be a lot of fucked up adults as a result of this.

Allowing any man to say he is a "woman" and gain access to womens changing rooms, toilets, refuges and prisons is madness and puts women in danger, including genuine trans women.

I think the fact that many MRAs are in support of these things is very telling.

I'm sure if there were a biological basis for gender dysphoria there would be some evidence for it by now.

I've been lurking here for a while now, and I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who's been posting on these threads. A few months ago, I thought denying that trans women are "real women" was homophobic. I was horrified when I first saw these threads. But the more I read, the more I started to feel that I had duped into supporting something that actually works against the interests of women.

At the moment, I feel that relaxing the rules to this extent is not necessarily a bad thing. As more and more MtFs succeed in sport, more people are going to start asking questions. Imagine the response if an MtF wins Wimbledon...

You do realise that everyone on this thread who could be seen as a transphobic bigot actually used to be pro-trans before they realised that the transgender movement was monumentally bad for women?

They are quite welcome to be whoever they feel they are without changing their brains or anything else. What they are not entitled to do is mandate everyone else believes they are women, or trample all over actual women's rights.

Quite simple.

Don't hate them just don't want them in the same changing rooms etc. PalmerViolet
I don't really see how that's more reasonable than someone saying they don't want lesbians in the changing room because lesbians fancy women, are usually more butch than hetero women and therefore are likely to make a successful attack on hetero women.

I'm another one eagerly awaiting what it means to be "mentally female".

And even if there does prove to be a neurological basis for being transgender, that doesn't eliminate the fact that trans people are physiooigcally the sex they are. In the case of MTT it still doesn't make it right to put male people in sex segregated spaces because of how they feel, or the cause of that feeling.

mummy lesbians are women. Women are allowed in spaces for...women.

Can you please point to your evidence for the epidemic of lesbian woman on woman violence?

What i am saying is that the actual biology of sperm production and pregnancy proves TW are not a class of female

A male with a 'ladybrain' is not a woman "born in the wrong body"
A male with a 'ladybrain' is a male with a (if pathologised) faulty brain

So no, TW are not women. They are male. To keep insisting they are female is gas-lighting. To keep using the technically incorrect and frankly idiotic phrase "born in the wrong body" ensures that stupid people start to believe it through the insidious yet constant use.

And no, they do not belong in the female half of the olympics any more than they belong in the paralympics.

So that's fine then. Let our identity be erased and called something else, just so in a few decades we won't be seen as bigoted.

It's a shame I cannot share it. My dd's and their mates are talking about this on fb.
Started as an innocent status from one of my dd's saying right. She is now a cat and from now on wants to be know as Fluffles.. Her mates were asking wtf and she explained. Huge debate across both genders..one of the males had an injury which has effected his game. He is considering hormones because it's the only way to get ahead.. This is not a joke. Some are saying but you will be up against females won't you feel shame? No says he. I try out as will others, who will get picked? Me or the females? So I will be competing mainly against other males pretending to be females.

Quite a few are saying home education will increase. It was bad enough being in school with silly immature boys trying to get into the girls toilets/changing rooms. But now they are given the green light to say I am a female and walk in..

I could go on.

"I don't really see how that's more reasonable than someone saying they don't want lesbians in the changing room because lesbians fancy women, are usually more butch than hetero women and therefore are likely to make a successful attack on hetero women."

Lesbians are women. They are very unlikely to commit sexual assault. Trans women commit violent crimes including rape and sexual assault at the same rate as men. More worrying to me is that men intent on assaulting women simply have to say they identify as a woman to gain access to woman's spaces, including to vulnerable women in shelters and prisons. How can you not see that could be a problem?

You actually sound quite homophobic btw.

mummy

Please stop digging the hole

Honestly, i know you mean well but i dont think i can take another stereotype

I can't believe that bullshit response from MNHQ.

mummy how is it "hating" to say that Transwomen are a subset of men - it's fact? No, I don't want any men in my gym showers, my hospital wards, and if I request a female HCP , I want them to be female. Please explain the hate?

Who the fuck mentioned changing rooms, Mummy?

Read the thread before you drool on it, maybe?

This is about athletics specifically The Olympics

The clue does tend to be in the name of the thread.

Nice to know that you think that lesbians should be kept away from heterosexual women though. Now who looks like a bigoted arse?

Now, I believe you were going to amaze us all with your patented explanation of your expression "mentally female"