To think that this is the end of women's athletics?

[fidel1ne]

And women's international sport generally?

Transgender competitors will be allowed to compete as the gender of their choosing pre-operatively and after just one year of hormone treatment.

And wtf?! Marina navratilova does not look like a man?!

I have no words

But luckily someone more articulate will be along in a minute

Or not

Yeah, fuck articulate!

Martina Navratilova doesn't look like a man? Even the Williams sisters who I suppose look more "masculine" than the average woman freely admit that they would have no chance of winning a match against a man ranked in the top 300.

And trans women weren't born with "screwed up" genitalia. They have perfectly working penises and most of them decide to keep them.

mummyusername go back up the thread a little and read about Fallon Fox, a MtTrans fighter in the women's division of MMA. Fallon's advantages include having been trained as a male soldier, male bone density, male reach, and male upper body strength. They caused horrific injuries to their female, lesbian opponent. Many of Fallon's supporters seemed to particulalry enjoy the fact that Fallon was fighting/beating a lesbian, as there is now significant hostility between some MTTrans and some lesbians.

It's really much darker than 'poor trans people who have the wrong genitals, let them compete against the ladies.'

What are you talking about Mummyusername?

If Martina Navratilova is biologically female then it doesn't matter what her sexual preferences are or whether she fits the stereotypical gender-based prejudices of what a woman should look like.

Elite athletes are not typically female, because most females don't spend thousands of hours training and competing to reach the top of their sport.

Biological sex is not a spectrum. Gender preferences may be, and the worrying thing is the degree to which gender preferences are being used to legislate against rights conferred by biological sex. And I think part of the argument is that transpeople do not agree that their genitalia has any impact on their right to choose whether they are male or female anyway.

I'm so glad I read that article on Duh-Dossing. Saves me so much time providing stuff that is easily available on Google.

*doxxing

Sorry, 'typical female' should have been in quotes to reflect Mummyusername's post. I don't believe there's such a thing as a 'typical female'.

*Duh-DoS ffs

Mummyusername, were you getting trans mixed up with intersex?

Why do you think some biological men should be allowed to compete against women, and not others, mummy? What about any other biological man who isn't as fast as the elite men? Should they be allowed to compete against the elite women too? If not, why not?

What is this spectrum of manliness/womanliness you mention?

Do you think Jess Ennis, for example, is a masculine woman?

So much to ponder here!

I think there's a clear majority of posters on MN against this bizarre and unfair development in sport.

"Messed up genitalia" as in the wrong sex of genitalia for that woman (a penis instead of a vagina) - not whether the genitalia are functioning or not.
For what it's worth I do think Ennis looks masculine compared to the average woman in the street. So what? It doesn't have to be an insult.
venusinscorpio the slower males wouldn't be allowed compete against women because they are not women (be that biologically female or transwomen)

mummyusername

Nobody can point to a biological reason why some men "feel" like women. Sex (your biology)is dimorphic . Gender (how masculine or feminine you are) is a spectrum.

Transwomen are biological men. They are not intersex - they are fully functioning biological males.

Why do you think men's and women's sport are (currently) segregated?

None of them are female though are they even if they believe they are women? They have been through male puberty and have the larger frame of a man as a result with all the athletic benefits that brings. No medication is going to change that. They are no different that the "slower males" in that regard.

Martina Navratalova does not look like a man
More importantly, she is not a man.
It is really quite easy to "sex" humans. (With the obvious and rare exception of those born with ambiguous genitalia- which is not a "trans" issue) As soon as they are born (from the uterus of a woman btw) we look between their legs and they either have a foof or a winky. The ones with a foof are baby girls, they grow up to be women and the ones with a winky are boys, who grow up to be men.
That is it.
Some people struggle with their identity in any number of ways, lobbing of their willies or sticking boobies on them or giving them hormones does not chane their sex. It simply does not.
The whole fucking business is not only offensive to me (as a woman) it is offensive to science and nature.

It is not possible to have the "wrong" genitalia. (See explanation above)
In the case of intersex individuals anatomical and endocrine testing is required to determine the sex of the person. Those elements tested are biological. The baby does not get allocated a winky or a foof based on their preference for blue or pink.

They dont do anything about their genitals

They just need to say 'i am a woman' and lower their testosterone a bit for a year

They can change back 4 years later and compete as men again if they want to.

Ridiculous.

Am i reading this right? The nhs is happy with levels of 8 of testosterone for men?
www.pathology.leedsth.nhs.uk/pathology/ClinicalInfo/Biochemistry/EndocrinologyampDiabetes/HormoneTestInterpretation.aspx

But they are biologically males because of a biological screw up. Is a person with Down's syndrome not a human being because they don't have the right amount of chromosomes that human beings have? Is it that much of a leap then to say a woman could be born with the wrong bits for a woman?

Yes it is that much of a leap
It is really offensive to try and draw any parallel with someone with Down "not being a person"
I have to ignore any further posts from you on the subject bcause of this level of willful stupidity.

It's not a "biological screw up". If it was then there would be biological and scientific evidence for that theory and there isn't.