To think that this is the end of women's athletics?

[fidel1ne]

And women's international sport generally?

Transgender competitors will be allowed to compete as the gender of their choosing pre-operatively and after just one year of hormone treatment.

YY, mathanxiety. Totally agree.

As someone said on the WEP thread, a lot of people would presumably be perfectly happy if equal representation for men and women meant half/half men and trans women.

Couldn't is issue be raised on the WEP Fb page and talked about - or are people scared to put their name to anything that could be jumped on as anti trans or transphobic?

I've tweeted them about it

WEP apparently have form for deleting comments they don't agree with.

WEP have made their stance clear on this - "woman" is a feeling and we are all hideous TERFy transphobic bigots.

No one has ever been able to answer this for me in RL.

But what the fuck does feeling like a woman mean?

I don't feel like a woman I feel like me, feel like a person with individual likes, dislikes etc.

I can not pin what feeling like a woman is. So I do struggle to understand a man who says he 'feels like woman' surely he feels like what his perception of a woman is. Since he isn't a woman, how does he know what he is feeling is like a woman?

I think you should ask Maria Miller, psychiatrist or psychologist.

YY. I have never got a decent answer to this either from either trans people or trans allies (and by that I include an answer I don't agree with but is logical and understandable).

What this all boils down to is whether or not society believes that woman is an actual thing in it's own right.

What is happening with this shift toward everything being geared toward MtT people is that women are being seen, once again, as merely castrated men. Lesser men. This despite the fact that the vast majority of MtT don't have any kind of GRS, and of those that do, a large number only have top surgery. So, still anatomically male.

No one want to see MtT people harmed. They shouldn't be discriminated against in the workplace, they should be as safe from attack as everyone else. People who do them physical harm because they are MtT should be convicted of hate crimes.

They aren't women.

They certainly shouldn't be able to, simply because they fancy it, be able to erase years of effort to get women's sport taken seriously.

And WEP can go fuck themselves as well.

It does give the whole 'fleeing war and persecution' thing an overtone of opportunism though.

My mum is a psychiatrist. As are a few of her friends. They can't answer either.

They can not pin point how someone who has been living their life as a male can say 100% they feel like a woman. Because every woman feels differently.

One of mums friends feel it's more a rejection of the 'male role' they feel try will be nurtured and protected if they are a woman rather than a man, who is expected to be the protector.

But being brought up as a man try don't understand the shit women deal with everyday. She thinks it's their screwed up version of what it means to be a man, that makes them 'feel like a woman'. Also that they can't live up to the male role they have on their head, so they choose to be female rather than feel inadequate.

But still no answer as to why these men 'know' they feel like a woman.

YY Katenka. I don't know how it feels to be my own mother or sister, let alone 'women' as a whole. This is because there is no such thing as feeling like 'a woman'. There is 'wearing women's clothing' and therefore 'looking like a woman' (or trying to) and imo many T people have got 'looking like' and 'feeling like' confused.

Love this photobomb from Hillsboro, Missouri, USA.

I feel like a woman for 2 reasons. One is the negative, oppressive gendered shit that gets thrown at me, which ranges from being ignored and patronised, to being raped. I can quite happily live without all of that, thank you very much. The second is by virtue of my biology - periods, puberty, TTC, being pregnant, giving birth, sustaining birth injuries and having surgery, and now feeling that menopause is not far off. Mostly though, I just feel like 'me'.

How exactly does a man 'feel like a woman'?

YY to women ='insufficient men'

How exactly does a man 'feel like a woman'?

That's the sixty four thousand dollar question.

I have posted about this topic on my facebook, generally supportive comments very similar to ones on this thread, most of my facebook friends are sports men and women and generally supportive of feminist issues, What sort of responses are others getting in social media and real life?

But being a woman is all about tits and clothes!

(The fact that some MTF transgender people appear to think this is all a women is about, and that this is what they're basing their 'feeling like a woman' on, makes me think that they have no fucking clue what feeling like a woman really is.

I mean, look at the praise Caitlyn Jenner got for saying the hardest part about being a woman was choosing your clothes

Fuck my life....you can tell that was said by someone who hasn't lived as a woman

Maryz, I have heard that said a lot, and it's probably true. In Iran a man can access GRS, but will be judicially murdered for being gay.

I think there is pressure on them Maryz. If they are women then they aren't gay. It's seen as a cure for homosexuality IMO

Iran has the highest incidence of transsexualism in the world precisely because gay men and lesbians are forced to have surgery.

There is a bit of a history of homophobia and hormone treatment, look what happened to Bletchley park hero Alan Turing, very pertinent point Maryz

I'm so appalled by this. I volunteer in a women's only space and the though that if we pass legislation anyone 'identifying' as female could walk through the the door is awful. I feel a sense of relief that others are as outraged as I am though because it feels isolating trying to protect women's rights whilst also not trying to discriminate trans people.