To not visit friends who have dogs and not allow dogs in my house?

[Zinni]

I don't like dogs much. I'm nervous around them especially big ones that jump up.

I also find them unbearably smelly indoors and hate getting dog hair/slobber on my clothes.

Three of my friends have dogs so I don't visit them at home. I don't feel comfortable being in the same room as the dog. I also have a 4-month-old and worry the dogs might try to sniff/lick him, I don't want them near him TBH as I don't trust them and worry they might suddenly lunge at him.

So I always turn down invitations to these friends houses. I'm too to explain I'm scared of the dogs! I've thought of asking them to shut dogs in another room but would this be rude?

Also my cousin is visiting soon (day-trip) to meet my son and said she will be bringing her dog, a German Shepherd cross. WIBU to insist dog stays in car?

Now you are BU.
I was with you earlier, but not wanting to meet in a dog friendly place is U.

Seriously you don't take your baby for walks in a park in case a giant dog manages to poke his head in the pram? That is sounding nuts now.
Dogs off leads in playparks with toddlers can be a pain in the bum but I never had a dog consider my pram to be that exciting.

Mine are so not interested in babies it can be embarrassing.
When we meet dog friendly parents with young children and they try to say hello to my dogs the dogs just walk past.

I'm not going to meet in a park or dog-friendly place, as I don't want him near baby or trying to put his head in pram!

I think this is extreme and indicates you may need some help getting over your fear. Your cousins dogs is likely to be around for quite a long time in your family, and a sensible introduction in a neutral location now is likely to mean a much more pleasant relationship in the future. A dog under the owner's control, assuming it has been well trained and socialised, is not going to snap, just from sniffing a baby. They're likely to be curious, interesting the new smell, and they will want to use their nose to investigate this new thing. A calm introduction, let him have a quick sniff, then praise him for being quiet and settled. Most likely, at baby age, once the dog has satisfied it's curiosity about this new thing, they'll be off for a run around the park and more interesting pastimes.

Making a big deal out of the baby and getting freaked out when a dog comes near you is the worst thing you can do. If the dog comes up and you're shrieking 'get away, get away!', waving your arms and trying to pull DS away, the dog will think that you're playing and will want to know what that exciting toy you are holding is. Make it very boring and the dog will care very little about your DS.

I brought newborn DS home to a house full of six dogs. As soon as I got home, I put DS in his cot, sat on the sofa, let the dogs in and then greeted them. After a few minutes, I picked up DS and sat back down. The dogs came over, had a few snuffles over him, and were told to 'sit' then praised and given a treat. Within five minutes, DS was basically forgotten and they went off to their usual spots for a nap. This was basically routine for the first few weeks of his life. He was never left unsupervised with them, and never allowed to crawl on them or annoy them. As such, they have never been in the position where they felt they needed to defend themselves against him, and life is peaceful (well as peaceful as it gets with six high drive dogs and a 4 year old in the house!). The relationship between them is lovely to see, and he particularly loves getting in the whelping box with a bunch of puppies and letting them play with him.

It's naturally to want to protect your child, but you need to be sensible and not let your mothers protectiveness turn in to a phobia. Dogs very, very rarely are genuinely aggressive. The majority of dog bites are because the dog has been provoked in some way. We've all seen those 'cute' viral videos of kids laying on top of dogs, pulling their ears, trying to ride them, and I just want to scream 'get the kid away!' because I can see the signals the dog is giving out. Dogs will warn before biting and they may not be signals you would think: ears back, yawning, refusing to make eye contact, are all signals that the dog is uncomfortable. Don't put the dog in that situation, and the chances of biting are almost non existent.

being the type of precious fool who bleats about the hazards of the two being in the same room with adult supervision.
The problem I have with you even using those terms, is that you as the dog owner, expect me as a parent, to have complete faith that you have adequately trained your dog since being a puppy and will control them when around my child. Your dog might not even be familiar with babies so you might not know how they will react to them. I only know a tiny number of dog owners who really have enough control over their dog to be able to know that they will never jump up at someone, most only respond to them after they have already done it. Most dogs will come over to investigate new people and most dog owners don't or can't stop their dogs from doing that. So if I have an aversion to dogs for whatever reason, that doesn't make me a bleating precious fool.

Your reasoning of you can't be sure applies to any situation. You couldn't be sure, dog or no dog, I'm not a danger to you or your baby. You can't be sure someone won't deliberately plow up the pavement to try and harm you when you're pushing a pram. You can't be sure your partner isn't a sex offender. You can't be sure an assistance dog won't suddenly ignore its training and place it's owner in danger. But in all those areas we apply logic and figure out the probability, and decide it's actually such an unlikely risk we can discount it. Dogs are no different. Except for the fact they are quite open and straight forward about their behavior, people aren't.

You're comparing dog attacks (or even bites) to terrifically unlikely incidents, like a stranger deliberately hitting your baby with a car or your husband turning out to be a sex offender.

The underlying issue that the OP doesn't even like dogs so there's no reason for her to assume the risk associated with a dog because there's no upside, whereas she probably would suffer greatly should she choose to never leave her house with the pram lest a stranger deliberately hit her with their car.

I've personally been involved in 2 serious dog incidents so no one will ever be able to convince me that dogs carry an insignificant risk, or that you can avoid dangerous dogs by using your dog savvy. I wouldn't want a German Shepherd anywhere near a baby.

Yanbu re asking dog to be left in car.

I wouldn't want someone's dog in my house uninvited.

You are completely right not to allow dogs in your home, its your home and i'm surprised a dog owner would assume their dog were invited.

Reading your further comments about not even meeting in a park- I think in all seriousness you need to get some help for your anxiety. One day your child will be a two year old that wants and needs to play at the park.. a four year old that wants to kick a ball around the park.. a six year old that wants to go to a friends house after school that might have a dog- this fear will affect not only your life but your childs too and that will be an awful shame, aswell as perpetuating this irrational level of fear.

Of course one should be cautious with children and dogs but not to the level of avoiding dogs altogether, its just not realistic. Your son might be the next Supervet!

Good luck OP, I mean that.

(Oh, and my soppy, well trained and socialised but not left alone with small children or babies dog neither moults nor slobbers and I ask my brutally honest mother if my house ever smells doggy and she swears not. Don't tar all with the same brush!)

I'm a dog owner and I was completely with you up until this... ""I'm not going to meet in a park or dog-friendly place, as I don't want him near baby or trying to put his head in pram!"

Seriously, the chances of the dog being remotely interested in your baby or its pram, when it has the whole park to explore are slim to zero. Besides, even if the dog did 'try to put its head in the pram' for some weird reason, its owner only has to pull it away before it got anywhere near

Its OK to ask dog owners to put their dog in another room. No reasonable person is offended by that.

Its not ok to ask someone to leave their dog in a car, so you need to let your cousin know she has to find a dog sitter for that day.

It would be a good idea for you to deal with your phobia as you are going to transmit it to your kid.
Find some child friendly dogs that have been wormed, and set up a play date for him with other kids around. He'll learn from them.

Dont scream at him if dogs are around or snatch him away from dogs. I have some friends who made their child completely phobic by doing that. He used to have a screaming fit if a dog was on the other pavement and I had to tell them that wasnt normal and that they were torturing him.

Ideally, children should be neutral around dogs - not afraid of them and not rushing up to grab them.

Have whatever aversion to dogs you like. And by all means as a stranger don't trust my ability to have a safe dog. I don't place absolute trust in strangers either when it comes to my childs safety. Friends are meant to be different.

apple you're wrong. The chances of a sex offender amongst your nearest and dearest are much greater than a dog attacking your child. But we don't all live our lives as hermits to eliminate that risk.

German shepherds are great btw, but same as any dog I don't trust every owner or every kid. I do however trust the owners I know. I've also been involved in more serious dog incidents, and every single one was predictable and could have been easily prevented.

Lurked I'm sorry but I loved dogs, had 1 for 7 years but I can assure you that my child was 100% attacked, from behind, in an unprovoked dog attack. A dog that came in from another room and went straight for my child. And every single thing you said, I have heard my Mil and dh say about that particular dog. I had no concerns until the moment it had my child's head in its mouth. I think people saying dogs never attack unprovoked or they give signs you just didn't see, somehow puts the blame on to the child or parent and I can guarantee that neither myself or my ds were to blame. The dog was to blame.

There are so many layers here... Apologies for repeating things PPs have said, but you're getting a lot of sound advice.

At first glance, you are totally NBU to not want any dogs in your house. Absolutely no question there; it's your house, you get to pick who comes over.

However - as a dog owner, there is no way I would shut my dogs away if you had been invited to my house - same rules apply; the house owner/renter/whatever gets to dictate how things work in their house.

Sadly, I think our friendship would fizzle out pretty damn fast on this basis - I have two dogs, one of whom is quite young, and so needs more supervision and can't be left for hours on end, so I don't think I'd be able to visit you all that often without first finding someone else to dogsit, and you'd clearly not want to visit me. The only sensible middle ground would be going out somewhere so the dog could accompany me, but as you've suggested you're not willing to make that compromise (and this is where I think YABU) then that would effectively be the end of any meet ups.

It's very unhelpful to say this, but no less true - your anxiety regarding dogs is both more likely to make them interested in you/your son, and more likely to make him grow up with a fear of dogs. Neither of these are particularly healthy. By all means talk to your friends about their dogs, but maybe try to be a bit more flexible. I'm definitely not suggesting you plonk your child on the floor and leave him with unknown dogs, but ask your dog-owning friends if any of them have a particularly laid back dog who could help you get past these nerves. Do any of your friends have children? If so, then presumably those dogs would be less interested in your baby as they'll already be socialised on that front.

I am not scared of dogs and quite like most dogs, even though I'm not a dog person.
However I have avoided taking my dd to houses where people have big energetic dogs who are not used to children after she was knocked over on two different occasions. The dog was just being friendly, I get that but he could still have accidentally hurt her.
First friend realised this and puts dog in the garden now, didn't even have to ask. Second person is luckily just an acquaintance, but I think she was unreasonable to let her great Dane continuously ' be friendly' to my tiny dd (4yrs) who was knocked over twice by him! Second time in a rose bush so she was also scratched!

So even though I don't have a phobia I think there is an element of common sense and I do think some dog owners loose perspective and just jump to the 'oh you have an unreasonable phobia'.
No, I don't, I just don't enjoy watching dd being knocked over while just trying to get across a garden. Also wouldn't want her to actually develop a phobia as a consequence.

mrsryan that must have been awful. When I say blame the person, I don't generally mean the parent or child. If a child provokes a dog it's always the adults fault anyway, never the kids. And provoking doesn't mean just anything deliberate. Just behavior that for that dog is stressful. Fwiw I would usually place the owner as first port of call for blame, and only once they are exonerated look at the child/ parent, previous people who have made the dog react that way.

My friend had a dog that could and would snap if a stranger shouted and then either lowered your arms or took a step back. And being big a snap could do a bit of damage. Because in the dogs mind you were acting the new alpha, and it was getting twatted and tortured again, but as in dog language you'd said you were slightly unsure of your alpha position, it was warning you it wasn't just going to take the abuse lying down. Being a dog person, it was easy to make sure the dog was never in that position.

I also had one that didn't like people holding toddlers on their knee or in their arms next to him. Never expressed any sign of stress I could describe as noticeable. I noticed though that he wasn't quite the same as normal in that situation. And didn't match up to his reaction to toddlers or adults elsewhere. So I just never ever placed him in that position. Given some of the shocking social media pics I later recalled in trying to puzzle it out, I'm convinced being held still while some idiot allowed their dc to maul him was the cause.

What I'm trying to say is that the dog always has a valid reason, and an owner should be able to read the warnings long before it gets to that. Who knows with that dog what the reasons were, but somewhere a human will be responsible. (not meaning you or your ds). The only time a human isn't to blame is the extremely rare situation of a brain tumour or similar suddenly producing unpredictable and out of character behavior. But that is massively rare.

What I'm trying to say is that the dog always has a valid reason, and an owner should be able to read the warnings long before it gets to that. Who knows with that dog what the reasons were, but somewhere a human will be responsible. (not meaning you or your ds). The only time a human isn't to blame is the extremely rare situation of a brain tumour or similar suddenly producing unpredictable and out of character behavior. But that is massively rare.

The valid reason that a dog attacks could be so unknowable that it ceases to be useful as a predictor.

Ynbu. It's how you feel. A dog jumping up is just like a child running to you to give you a cuddle but if it intimidates you, then it is what it is. You feel what you feel. I'm not a great lover of dogs TBH. Im only interested in them as cute adorable little pups after the puppy stage I can take or leave them.

She said she can't leave him at home by himself
Why not?
Will he combust if left alone for an hour or 2.
Seems odd!

OP says cousin's coming for a day trip.

That's too long to leave a got for.

Will he combust if left alone for an hour or 2.

Can't talk for the OP's cousin, but if I left my dog alone for an hour or two he'd probably destroy my sofa.

Some dogs get separation anxiety and so can be quite stressed out at being left. Others get bored and boredom often equals destructive behaviours.

I wouldn't want a dog in my house either!!

I would ask when you visit if the dog can be shut away (most people I know offer this automatically) or pretend you have alergies x

Mine are so not interested in babies it can be embarrassing.
When we meet dog friendly parents with young children and they try to say hello to my dogs the dogs just walk past.

Mine are the same. They are friendly but they have absolutely no desire to interact with people that they don't know, especially children, and will completely ignore them. On the rare occasions that we walk in a busy place I almost always have to ask parents to stop their children chasing after my dogs because they don't enjoy being poked and prodded at. One of those occasions was a few Saturdays ago when we took them for a long walk at a large NT forest and decided to grab a drink and sandwich from the dog friendly cafe halfway around. We were at an outside table with the dogs sitting obediently under the table at our feet the whole time. In the half-hour that we were there the dogs didn't so much as look sideways at anyone else let alone try to approach them, yet we had to tell five different children not to bother them/to ask before they try to touch strange dogs as their parents seemed to think it was absolutely fine to let them just come up and start shoving their hands in the dogs' faces without asking.

In response to the OP, yanbu to not want people to bring dogs to your house. I wouldn't dream of taking my dogs to someone else's house without asking them first, and tbh wouldn't even ask and would just leave the dogs at home unless I knew they really liked dogs/had dogs themselves that mine got on with.

I wouldn't be at all offended if someone said they had a genuine fear of dogs, and I would be willing to restrict ours in our own house to accommodate this up to a point i.e. put them behind the baby gate in the kitchen, but not shut them out in the garden, and for a few hours, not all day. I would be offended if someone wanted mine out of the way in their own house purely because they just don't like dogs and had made the assumption that they are noisy, jumping-up, barky beasts who are going to paw at and slobber all over them and/or their child, because nothing would be further from the truth. That scenario would be unlikely to transpire though given that I doubt if I'm going to have tons in common with a dog-hating person given that I'm a dog-mad vet I would also be annoyed if someone lied about having allergies, that would be a short-lived friendship I think.

OP, yanbu to not want the dog in your house but ywbu to not actually tell your cousin that before she turned up. Yabvu also about not meeting in a park etc. in case the dog 'sticks its head in the pram' - seriously! Are you going to avoid all public areas for the next however many years in case a dog approaches your child?

It's entirely up to you whether you allow dogs in your home or not, I have never taken my dogs to other people's homes. I am happy to put my dogs away if people are scared of them or have an allergy, but equally other dog owners make different choices in their homes.

Having said all that your perceptions of the danger dogs pose sound exaggerated and misplaced. Dogs are everywhere, you cannot hope you and your DC avoid them for the rest of your lives. It would be much safer for you and your DC to learn about dog behavior, warning signs, what an aggressive dog looks like and what to do when faced with a truly aggressive dog.

apple you don't need to know why a dog might attack. You just need to spot any tiny signs the dog isn't comfortable before it gets anywhere near that stage. Again, it's the owner who may or may not be trustworthy, not the dog.

Its OK to ask dog owners to put their dog in another room. No reasonable person is offended by that.
Sadly that is clearly not the case.
as a dog owner, there is no way I would shut my dogs away if you had been invited to my house

What I'm trying to say is that the dog always has a valid reason, and an owner should be able to read the warnings long before it gets to that. Who knows with that dog what the reasons were, but somewhere a human will be responsible.
You see this is where it just gets silly! Many dog owners aren't that in tune with their dog's warning signs. Even those who are aren't necessarily watching intently enough to see them. What if the owner has just nipped to the toilet?
And no, there isn't always a human responsible for a dog attack. Dogs are animals and they are not under the complete control of a human all the time. Sometimes they behave in a way that is unexpected for them. Some dogs are unpredictable and untrustworthy.

if I left my dog alone for an hour or two he'd probably destroy my sofa.
But I'm supposed to be able to trust this animal with me and my children?
Dogs only have a limited understanding of what is and isn't acceptable behaviour, and owners only have limited influence over them.