AIBU to not pay off DH's debt? (apols for long post)

[bookwormthatturned]

I'm trying to get some perspective on this so would appreciate your thoughts ....

My DH has largely not been employed for the last few years following losing his job at the same time as his father died. He has had a number of fresh starts which haven't worked out and has not had an easy time.
Discussing finances isn't something he is comfortable with so, after getting a vague response whenever I asked how he was financially I ended up leaving it to him to tell me. DH had an amount of cash reserves and was still contributing to the joint account.
It now transpires that he has a significant credit card debt. Talking about it DH had an expectation that I would pay this off (I received a legacy from a relative that would just about cover the debt).
I'm reluctant to do this. The same thing happened a few years ago and we put that amount onto our mortgage (DH had previously funded some improvements so we just 'refunded' an amount of this from the mortgage to cover the debt.)
I have offered to take out a joint 0% interest card and (I'm working so would have the credit rating to do this) transfer the debt onto this. I've also offered to cover the minimum payments while DH is job hunting but he doesn't want to do this. Instead his plan is to continue using the card and then pay it all off as soon as he gets a 'proper' job. I've been encouraging him to be flexible and look at any job to help the cash flow in the short term. He has now taken a Christmas casual job which is due to end shortly.

Sorry for a long post and all the background but I'm losing the plot here. Am I being an unsupportive cow not to just pay it off? My concern is that DH would just carry on using the card and things could escalate again.

TIA

I paid my exDP debts - gave him a lump sum and also told him not to pay anything towards the mortgage or bills for 18 mths or so, so he could pay the debt down.

He then left me. None of it was ever paid back.

Please keep your inheritance completely separate. If the worst happened and you did split, if you have co-mingled it with joint finances, then he gets a share of it. If you have kept is separate, he doesn't.

Not necessarily :(

The OP could well keep her inheritance but it would be considered when making a financial settlement and therefore her DH could be awarded a larger share of the marital pot to compensate.

And it's not male pride because if it were he wouldn't expect you to bail him out.

Thanks for all the comments.

DH's normal occupation is relatively high paid but also high risk - that's why he lost his main job. His dad's illness and death had a big impact on him which has lasted for a long time.
Job hunting is complicated by the fact that we have 2 children so need to work around childcare. I've increased to almost full time working due to finances meaning DH has been at home with the children. Our youngest started school in Sept which now makes things easier jobwise.
In November I trawled the jobsites for casual Christmas work and DH applied for them and got a temp weekend job. Being out working again and mixing with people seems to have lifted his outlook and he is now approaching this and similar orgs for more of these contracts.
I want to help build on this positivity and not knock it but I feel really uncomfortable about not bringing the debt situation to a head sooner - to be honest I feel I've stuck my head in the sand for too long as it is.
Bottom line, if someone refuses to cooperate with moving debt onto a 0% card or stopping using the card what options do I have? - This isn't a LTB scenario, I'm not looking for any nuclear options, more around how to address this in a healthy way that we can move on from.

You have the option of telling him to sell his bikes. And of telling him to take any job. Do you not feel disgusted at his behaviour? And disrespected?

Hang on everyone. Whilst the credit card debt is not a joint debt the OP and her DH are financially linked since they have joint accounts and a mortgage in joint names.

As a result it really isn't as simple as saying wipe your hands of it and let him get on with it.

OP in your situation I would sit down and say "we are in a financial mess, something has to change, what is your proposal?" He will then say use the inheritance and you should say "that isn't an option unless every other possible option has been tried first."

Then you make a list of your expenditure and assets and see whether there is another option, whether than means selling bikes and ending the lease on the garage (likely outcome) or selling other assets/stopping other activities/expediture. Do these things first.

Then you need a sensible plan for moving forwards. He doesn't have enough money to get by living the way he does and so he needs to understand that you as a family are now on a serious budget. That isn't easy when some of your finances are separate but it is possible and you ned to support him with that.

You can get back on top of things but he needs to be on board. Don't simply transfer the debt onto a 0 percent card in your name. It will then be your debt.

if someone refuses to cooperate with moving debt onto a 0% card or stopping using the card what options do I have?

Refuse to pay his debt... Refuse to give him any money other than to live (e.g. food and necessary bills). If he can't spend money on his motorbikes, or afford the rent on storing his motorbikes, then what's he going to do? Well, whatever he does.. that's his problem, NOT yours.

A healthy way to address this would be for him to take some responsibility for his debt and work with you to resolve it. A non healthy way would be for him to assume you're going to pay it off....

My sister has a Husband who doesn't take any responsibility for money and I know it's really ground her down at times. Doesn't it feel like it's messing with your head? E.g. you don't only have to manage your finances, but you have to manage someone elses as well? I'd personally resent that.. and would feel sad I couldn't trust my partner with money

Just to reply to the points some people have made:
When DHs dad died he was left a sizeable sum. He used some to fund home improvements needed to make space for DS2 and then used this as living funds while he tried setting up his own business. This unfortunately didn't work out so he's been using more of it to keep him goings in the gaps between other jobs he's taken which have either ended up being temp or not viable when set against the childcare costs. This means his reserves were being whittled away but then bumped up from time to time by new jobs.
I agree that not pushing things means I've basically colluded with the situation and am now trying to change that.
DH doesn't have a hugely extravagent spending pattern but will spend on non-essentials. His view is that he can pay it all off promptly when he gets a 'proper' new job. He's used credit in that way in the past he help fund the expenses of taking up new job opportunities and its always worked out but this time, having had a break from that sector for a few years, things are different and it's not a dead cert that another high income job will come along in the next few months.
If I ask DH about what's happening with job-hunting he reacts as though he's being checked up on and micro-managed but unless I ask he doesn't say much about what happening. He's got some good ideas on how to network to get back into i to his sector but seems less focused on sorting a temp job for now to help address the finances.
I recognise the points some people have made about there being broader issues here but the bottom line is that I love him and want this to work

So his positivity has translated into you paying off his debt.

I get that you don't want to knock him down again.

But take you head out of the sand and takes his out. He needs a job. Even if it's part time.

Unless you can increase your hours, pay all the bill and be happy with him being a sahp.

But you can't continue like this. Him paying the bills on a credit card.

He's being a child. No one needs more than one motorbike (if he needs one for commuting reasons - if he doesn't, he doesn't need any motorbikes).

He has run up debt, he needs to take responsibility and use his bikes to free up money.

If you were very nice you could agree to pay off the debts 50:50 as they have been household costs too while he was unemployed. You match what he puts in from sale of bikes.

He can't just carry on using the card and then "just pay it off" - that way lies out of control credit card debt that can get too big to pay off. He needs to prioritise getting a job and you need a strict budget so that debt doesn't mount up.

If he refuses to stop using the card or to do anything about paying it off, sooner or later the card company will be in touch requiring repayment at some level. If he entirely refuses to co-operate with this process, it's possible (though not definite) that they'd take legal action to recover the debt. Should they do so and get judgment in their favour, the debtor's assets including their share of any joint ones might be up for grabs. So this is all a long way down the road, but it's possible you could be affected in that respect OP simply because you both own a house jointly. But this is a complex area and you'd clearly need to get advice if it were to get that bad. This is a worst case scenario, and I'm not a debt specialist. It does mean, though, that you can't assume you'll necessarily be able to take a your problem, not mine approach as advocated by some posters.

DH has obviously behaved very badly, but if he's basically been a SAHD for small children for a while that does need to be factored into the discussion as well. He's been contributing to the household in that way. Of course, that doesn't mean he's not well out of line running up all that debt on bikes and storage, and expecting you to sort it out. He is. That's twattery of the highest order. But I think it does mean that the portion he ran up contributing to household expenses, during the SAHD period at least, isn't morally just his responsibility.

Agree entirely with fanny

A joint approach needs to be taken here.

That's not true in the UK. It is different in America but in the UK you are not responsible for anyone else's credit card debt. I wish people would stop spouting it on these threads because it makes people think they'll be in more financial difficulty post-split than they actually will be!

It was certainly taken into consideration by the courts in my divorce!

The amount of debt affected the amount of 'assets' there are to split.

Please keep your inheritance completely separate. If the worst happened and you did split, if you have co-mingled it with joint finances, then he gets a share of it. If you have kept is separate, he doesn't.

Simply not true.

I should've also said above, if he does nothing about repayments for long enough, there'll likely come a point when he's not allowed to borrow any more. As his borrowed money has been used towards your household expenses pot OP, you'd also need to think about how you're going to cover bills etc without it. That may not be a problem for you, I don't know. You do have your inheritance so that could be used if necessary.

The amount of debt affected the amount of 'assets' there are to split.

That's not the same as being responsible for paying it.

You're working full time and yet you're the one who went trawling the net looking for jobs he could apply for?

I think you don't as much have a husband as you have a third child, tbh, which is a bigger problem than your debt. You may not want a LTB nuclear option to this, but this kind of apathy on his part will eventually kill your feelings towards him due to resentment; though it often takes years and wastes the best part of your lives. He needs a short sharp shock to shape up now.

Sorry you're struggling with this.

If he contributes to the family income by providing childcare that you'd otherwise have to pay for , then he is making a contribution.

However, as a family you're clearly living beyond your means. As you're married, there aren't really hard divisions between your money and his money, but the lack of communication (mainly from him, by the sounds of it!) is causing a huge problem.

Paying everyday bills on credit cards when there's another solution is insanity. Likewise, it's crazy to be spending on non-essentials like motorbike storage and motorbikes as a hobby while in debt. You need to sit down together and work out the finances in a totally transparent manner- the status quo isn't an option.

At some point, a situation has gone on long enough that you have to have the uncomfortable realisation and acceptance that the life you are living now is the "real" situation and the new normal. He cant keep spending money he doesnt have because hes expecting to return to the "normal" of having a job paying like he had before.

I put on a lot of weight in the last 2 years due to medical stuff, literally a third of my bodyweight again.
I ended up with no coat and worn out clothes because I didnt want to spend money on clothes while I wasnt at my "real" weight.
I had to accept a few months ago that I had to work with how things are now because my day-to-day life was no longer working while I was working under this assumption that this was purely a temporary thing.

But I think it does mean that the portion he ran up contributing to household expenses, during the SAHD period at least, isn't morally just his responsibility.

I would agree if he had been open and honest about it. If he told her he had money (or led her to believe he had money) and wanted to carry on paying, then I don't think she is responsible.

If the OP thought he was paying expenses our of money he had stashed away....where is that money?

It doesn't make sense. If she thought he had (for example) 10k stashed away and insisted on paying his half of bills out of it. It would last a certain amount of time.

So either the OP knew, deep down that his money has run out and carried on with her head in the sand. Even though she knew he wasn't working.

Or he has spent his savings elsewhere and got into debt to cover it up.

Did I read it that the OP was looking for jobs for him for the Christmas period?

If so that is ridiculous. He is an adult. The kids are now at school. He should be doing that himself. Not sitting back while you fin him a job and pay off his debt

If he contributes to the family income by providing childcare that you'd otherwise have to pay for , then he is making a contribution.

Exactly

Do you mind me asking what sector his 'proper job' is in? The market is constantly evolving - does the job he's looking for actually exist any more?

DH's job does still exist but it's a shrinking market so he's looking at how he can transfer his skills elsewhere. He is spending time on this but there doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency or prioritising - pre Christmas he was ebaying stuff which did bring in some funds but focusing on getting a Christmas job sooner would have been more £ productive.
Having been out of real work for a few years and having knock backs when new jobs haven't worked out must really dent your confidence and outlook (not that DH would say this out loud) and so I'm trying to factor this into things too in terms of what it is realistic to expect

If he has multiple bikes then why not turn it into a business? Something that he could use to start repaying his debts and bring a little income in. That would satisfy his male identity

Don't pay it. The inheritance you received was not built up over many years to be blown on unnecessary debts.