Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Lending money to brother in law

267 replies

HormonalHeap · 05/01/2016 09:28

Brother in law is married but regularly asks dh (his brother) for loans on the quiet, asking that we don't tell my sil. The texts are pleading and using wording that will pull on dh's heartstrings.

Seems a strange marriage as sil inherited a lot of money and treats bil to lovely holidays etc but expects bil to pay some bills- but when he can't (work sporadic), he turns to dh. Dh told him we're happy to lend them money providing it's above board (ie she knows). He's now told bil it's me that feels we should only lend money with sil's knowledge.

Backstory is around 9 years ago, dh lent him an astronomical sum which he's never had back and written off. He also owed his sister money. Having said that, last time he borrowed money he paid back. Dh is making me feel like a bitch for saying no, but i'm just so sick of dh's kindness being abused.

OP posts:
AyeAmarok · 07/01/2016 18:56

Hmm, don't get your hopes up OP!

Also, make sure your DH hasn't given it to him on the quiet.

EnriqueTheRingBearingLizard · 07/01/2016 19:06

I'm sorry HH but you are going to have to be firm, unemotional and dig your heels in.

After all this debate it boils down to the fact that most people are more than happy to help out in a crisis, but this is far from that, it's a lifestyle choice.

Regardless of how well fixed you are, the money is ultimately coming out of your own children's pockets, because we're not talking a few hundred or even a 'few' thousand' pounds here and as I said before, your DH is only helping perpetuate BIL's fiscal and moral instability.

BIL's first allegiance should be to his DW and it is for the two of them to unravel and settle their financial affairs, not DH to intervene.

Definitely time to step back. If DH can't or won't then I would be suggesting all contact came through me.

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 07/01/2016 22:25

Thanks Enrique. I'm hardened to the situation because of bil's lies, dh is also sick of it but I won't let him weaken (promise)

OP posts:
Jux · 08/01/2016 08:49

Tot up bil's total borrowing from your dh over the years you've been around. I guess it will be a huge sum. Use it to approximate hiw much he's borrowed for a few years before you came along. Then add on the 60K.

Would that shock your dh?

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 08/01/2016 09:11

The finest of dh's skills set is burying his head in the sand. Never mind bil, if I included sums given to other members of his family, that would make for interesting reading. I was taking to a friend about it yesterday- she said some men give large sums to charity (dh also) but dh gives to his family- he says money's just a means to an end, health is the only thing of worth and if he can make his family's life easier.. I can dig my heels in (like I am), but I'm not going to be able to change him.

OP posts:
Jux · 08/01/2016 09:31

No. Generosity is a virtue, but it does need to be tempered. Throwing good money after bad is not generosity, it's foolish.

Mainly,myour bil has never taken responsibility for his own finances becuse dh has always bailed him out. That is not an act of charity, and results in infantilisation, which is what has happened.

Your bil really needs to grow up now, as when he and dh are in their 90s it won't necessarily be so easy.

skyeskyeskye · 08/01/2016 09:54

It is lovely that your DH feels that he should give the money if he has it, but unfortunately it will be a never ending pit if he doesn't draw the line somewhere.

Above I mentioned about XBIL. XSIL was also terrible with money. XMIL kept on giving her money, paying off loans, buying food, paying the mortgage. Every time XMIL cleared a loan, they would just take out another one and buy stuff they wanted but didn't need. They did this knowing that XMIL would pay it for them. XSIL would give a sob story about how she couldnt afford to feed the DC etc and XMIL would cough up.

XH was the same. I cleared his credit card debts and he ran them up all over again. He actually couldn't see that he had done anything wrong and why I was so upset about it. I felt betrayed as I had helped him and he was no better off.

As long as your DH keeps on giving BIL money, he will never kerb his spending or learn his lesson.

If the marriage is over, maybe pay his first months rent and deposit for him, to get him on his feet, but make that the end of it, or he will never stand on his own two feet.

If he threatens suicide, then involve the NHS and get him help. You will soon find out if he is calling your bluff (my Dad used to do this all the time to get his own way).

wannabestressfree · 08/01/2016 10:06

I think your dh and you by default have had a bit of a battering on here. Your situation reminds me of our 'family'. I have put my hands in my pockets numerous times for my brothers and sisters and feckless mother.
You are doing the right thing now though..your dh can be financially supportive if the marriage does end without dishing out large sums eg helping rent a place.
I hope it goes well and you all remain strong.

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 08/01/2016 10:10

This has definitely come between my relationship with sil as I find it hard to spend too much time in his company. Thanks for your wise advice.

OP posts:
Original poster
HormonalHeap · 08/01/2016 10:13

Thank you Wannabe x

OP posts:
wannabestressfree · 08/01/2016 10:15

My partner has a brother who is the same..wastes money on crap then would message him asking for a handout 'to go to the races'. Partner couldn't understand why it made me cross that we would juggle money to go to the cinema and his brother/.older children etc would take the piss....
My partner is just a kind (but weak) people pleaser. We have both decided this year to shut up shop. Because it affects our relationship.... The same as the one with your sil as she has no idea of what's going on.

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 08/01/2016 10:27

Summed up my dh neatly in one sentence "kind (but weak) people pleaser. Just for a laugh- last summer sil decided she fancied tickets for royal enclosure Ascot told bil to sort it. Took months to get the money back but I was like a dog on a scent wouldn't let it go, got every penny back in end

OP posts:
DeoGratias · 08/01/2016 10:29

It just enables people's behaviour if you make them these types of loans and gifts. They neve live within their means or take that weekend job in a pub because they know they can always have a source of income. Stand firm.

Also always have a written loan agreement. they are not hard to draw up.

suzannecaravaggio · 08/01/2016 10:44

They neve live within their means
Actually I think they do live within their means, but to them their 'means' includes whatever monies can be siphoned out of other people!

suzannecaravaggio · 08/01/2016 10:46

When bil calculates his budget the 'money in' column includes whatever amount he expects to be able to squeeze out of his bro

WhereYouLeftIt · 08/01/2016 11:19

"he says money's just a means to an end, health is the only thing of worth and if he can make his family's life easier.. I can dig my heels in (like I am), but I'm not going to be able to change him."
As Jux said, generosity is a virtue. That needn't change, couldn't change, it's a part of your husband (and a good part). Maybe what he needs is to be able to look at the big picture rather than the detail, though. Because what is generous in the moment can actually be quite unhelpful, cruel even, when looked at overall.

So far, he has been generous in the moment, bailing his brother out of an immediate crisis. But this has had an unintended consequence. By shielding his brother from the inevitable consequences of his own actions, he has locked his brother into a very destructive lifestyle. BIL's behaviour is rewarded - of course he will continue.

Could your husband see that what would be best for his brother's long-term happiness would be for him to be independent, to be able to respect himself as independent rather than regard himself as the feckless ne'er-do-well running to his little brother AGAIN?

Could you sell this picture to your husband? That the kindest thing he could do for his brother is to tell him no? Because your husband is clearly a kind man.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/01/2016 12:45

Superb posts from WhereYouLeftIt and others this morning

The problem, of course, is that while DH would actually help more in the long run by stepping back, BIL certainly won't see it that way; neither will he appreciate his cash stream being cut in any way

I'd also be concerned about the rest of the family who've received money. If they see BIL's money drying up, won't they worry they'll be next in line and be more inclined to exert joint pressure?

suzannecaravaggio · 08/01/2016 13:02

Good point Puzzled!
Bil is the canary in the coal mine
If he croaks then the rest of them are at risk of financial asphyxiation

Jux · 08/01/2016 15:11

What happens in the event of an accident (god forbid) to your dh? If he can't earn? If his income stream dries up?

How is bil going to cope then?

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 08/01/2016 15:12

Dh doesn't think bil is able to stand on his own feet; he says not easy to start again in 50's. But as DeoGratias pointed out, he COULD get some type of work, perhaps it wouldn't fit into their 'lifestyle', but yes, much easier to run to dh threatening his marriage is over when in trouble.

WhereYouLeftIt absolutely, and i pointed out yesterday to dh the fact that he wasn't helping in the long term and that for their marriage have any hope there has to be honesty not lies. I also said it was affecting our relationship with them both, even sil doesn't know why.

The other family members who've received sums- I honestly don't think they'd connect it with themselves (one of whom is dh's EX bil !).

Dh had an uncle who very much like dh, supported all his immediate family ie brother/sister/mother. When he died, his wife cut them all off financially. I've always heard from the family how rotten this woman was/is, but thinking about it now, perhaps she just thought "enough already". From the family's perspective, she didn't work (whilst they did), why should she have an easy life?

OP posts:
Original poster
HormonalHeap · 08/01/2016 15:13

Jux- cross post, read the last paragraph of my above post

OP posts:
Jux · 08/01/2016 16:43

That'll be you! That mighT be a way to influence your dh, would he want you to be reviled by his family after he is gone just because you couldn't afford to pay for them too?

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 08/01/2016 17:07

That'd be the worst thing I could say- they hated her because she could afford it. They saw her living without a care in the world whilst they struggled, and said he'd be turning in his grave. Anyway, pls g-d my dh isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

OP posts:
WhereYouLeftIt · 08/01/2016 17:18

There does seem to be some unhealthy attitudes to money/earning in your DH's family.

rollonthesummer · 09/01/2016 10:34

What happened to the sponging family members once the uncle died and the aunt stopped their money? Did they have to pay their own way with jobs? Or did they come straight to your DH?

I have honestly never known families to operate like this. Not in 'real life' I mean.

Swipe left for the next trending thread