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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Lending money to brother in law

267 replies

HormonalHeap · 05/01/2016 09:28

Brother in law is married but regularly asks dh (his brother) for loans on the quiet, asking that we don't tell my sil. The texts are pleading and using wording that will pull on dh's heartstrings.

Seems a strange marriage as sil inherited a lot of money and treats bil to lovely holidays etc but expects bil to pay some bills- but when he can't (work sporadic), he turns to dh. Dh told him we're happy to lend them money providing it's above board (ie she knows). He's now told bil it's me that feels we should only lend money with sil's knowledge.

Backstory is around 9 years ago, dh lent him an astronomical sum which he's never had back and written off. He also owed his sister money. Having said that, last time he borrowed money he paid back. Dh is making me feel like a bitch for saying no, but i'm just so sick of dh's kindness being abused.

OP posts:
Original poster
HormonalHeap · 09/01/2016 15:48

Dh was a teen at the time. Maybe I've been brainwashed but (just asking), is it so unusual to look after, for example, one's mother if she's on her own?

And if he was regularly giving money to other family members and the wife stopped it after his death, inheriting millions plus an enormous property portfolio, would it be unreasonable of those family members to be bitter?

OP posts:
pinkyredrose · 09/01/2016 16:12

Yes it would be unreasonable of them to be bitter. It's her money not theirs, they had no right to it. Any badmouthing her is plain jealousy and sour grapes on their part.

Redlocks28 · 09/01/2016 16:39

It's not really usual to rely on handouts from other family members, no.

suzannecaravaggio · 09/01/2016 16:48

if he was regularly giving money to other family members and the wife stopped it after his death, inheriting millions plus an enormous property portfolio, would it be unreasonable of those family members to be bitter?

totally unreasonable imo, I cant see that they have any justifiable claim to her money.
He could have willed money to them if he wanted his estate to support them after his death

Puzzledandpissedoff · 09/01/2016 17:07

Utterly unreasonable of them to be bitter, yes - I can only think they'd started to think of the money as a right, rather than as a lovely bonus while sorting out their own lives/finances

This is exactly why many folk maintain that constant funding does the recipients no real favours in the end, but just infantalises them

WahhHelpMe · 09/01/2016 17:28

I think there's an incredible double standard hear the DH is being labelled a cocklodger, but to me it sounds like someone possibly being financially abused and needing help

Geepee71 · 09/01/2016 17:32

feel for you HH, funny thing money. Hope you /your dh find a workable solution that ends the requests, but I doubt it. Bil knows he can rely on your dh, so doesn't have to lose face or find money any other way and has probably convinced himself that it's right for his brother to sub him.

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 09/01/2016 17:42

Apparently he had told a family member before his death (in an accident) that they weren't happy and were about to divorce. Who knows. I don't think the close relatives thought they had any claim to the money, just that she was a cold hard bitch for cutting them off and that that's not what he would have wanted.

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MadisonMontgomery · 09/01/2016 17:46

It is definitely a funny attitude towards money. My family are all v generous, and I'm sure we'd all help out someone in a crisis - but this seems to be an inherited attitude that those with more money should be an endless source of income for everyone else. If the uncle had wanted his family to be supported financially after his death then he would have made provisions in his will.

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 09/01/2016 18:02

Do you know Madison I think you're right, it is like an inherited attitude that those with more money should support the others. Dh's mother encourages him to support his siblings and wider family, I assume so she doesn't have to worry about them.

It's not an ego thing at all for dh, he idolised his uncle and I suppose is just carrying on what he thought to be the right thing.

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Original poster
HormonalHeap · 09/01/2016 18:06

I am dh's second wife (first had affair). When we met and then eventually married, dh had no money whatsoever for various reasons (no not that one!!) If I'm honest, I do feel they sometimes look at me now he's doing well and think I have it too easy. Or maybe that's me being sensitive.

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Geepee71 · 09/01/2016 18:15

Well if he had no money when you met, that's not why you're with him nor did you know he would do well and you could 'have it easy' anyway you could have been the catalyst for him wanting to work hard and build up a successful business/career!

MadisonMontgomery · 09/01/2016 18:16

If nothing else, what is your DH teaching your children? That you don't need to be financially responsible because someone else will pick up the pieces?

Geepee71 · 09/01/2016 18:18

I should have clarified that his family would know you aren't with him for money, if he had no money when you met. He sounds lovely, which is obviously why you are with him......... (Gets coat).....
I'd say it's jealousy

MadisonMontgomery · 09/01/2016 18:19

Sorry, that came across as bitchy and it wasn't meant to be! But maybe put it to DH that he doesn't want your children to grow up with the same attitude towards money.

EnriqueTheRingBearingLizard · 09/01/2016 18:20

HH just stop worry about what other people think and what's reasonable and being sensitive. You don't need to seek advice from MN.

Think about what you'd do in each of the individual circumstances and follow your own moral compass.

If I were the somewhat impoverished relative of wealthy parents or siblings, I would be rowing my own boat unless absolutely desperate. I'm not sure what it would take to ask for help, but in the event of a loan I would be working extra hard to repay it as soon as humanly possible.

Likewise, should I be wealthy and see a family member needing assistance, then I'd be happy to oblige, with no strings,, but only if I wasn't be played for a fool and treated as a never depleting cash cow.

You and DH are perfectly capable of working out each situation as they occur.
From what you've told us on this thread I think you're guilty of overthinking things and your DH is guilty of not thinking things through.

suzannecaravaggio · 09/01/2016 18:21

I find it odd, this idea that as an adult you have a financial obligation to your family of origin, it's as if they feel that they were part of his success, somehow made him who he is and so they should have a share of it.
Their claim on him take priority over your claim on him

Marriage or cohabiting in our culture usually involves pooling the resources of the couple and becoming a financial unit.

I would never expect any of my children to provide for their siblings, certainly wouldn't meddle in any lending or borrowing that went on between them

AyeAmarok · 09/01/2016 18:36

I agree it's very unreasonable for them to be bitter about being financially "cut off".

You should not be relying/expecting financial support from anyone, once you're an adult. Family may, if you're very lucky, help you out in a crisis, or help get you back on your feet. But you must ALWAYS live within your means and if you are gifted money then use it wisely, not piss it away then go looking for more!

And then to have the audacity to feel hard done by because your cash cow died and the gravy train has stopped, and the wife says she's not going to keep on giving you their money!

Honestly, I'm so shocked that you even consider that that might be a reasonable reaction. I think that, because of your DH and his family brainwashing you, you've lost perspective entirely.

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 09/01/2016 18:39

That's fine Madison, my dcs certainly don't think like that, it's just not how they are. Dh's adult children on the other hand are always 'borrowing' from dh, who never asks to be repaid. One even went so far as to voice his displeasure on the amount dh had spent on a holiday and car. I don't get involved as they're his children and haven't been raised by me.

Thanks all for your views I will just try to not overthink things from now on!

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WhereYouLeftIt · 09/01/2016 21:59

"is it so unusual to look after, for example, one's mother if she's on her own?"
I'd say it is relatively uncommon. As a sweeping generalisation; parents of adults tend to have paid off their 25 year mortgage and have a pension to draw on. If that is not the case then adult children may just not be in a financial position to help (e.g. massive mortgage, single income as SAHP needed for pre-schoolers).

"And if he was regularly giving money to other family members and the wife stopped it after his death, inheriting millions plus an enormous property portfolio, would it be unreasonable of those family members to be bitter?"
Frankly, yes. I would expect a millionaire to be fairly clued up about money. So I'd expect him to have made a tax-efficient will, and made provision in that will for any relatives he intended to support financially. Support, as opposed to bail out of a crisis or make an occasional gift to. He didn't do that, so he didn't intend to support them indefinitely. He may have been sucked into (like your husband) giving handouts for a quiet life, but continuing to do so was not part of his financial planning. Regardless, family members felt bitter, because they felt entitled to someone else's money.

It's been mentioned before, but the richer-relative-expected to-be-a-cash-cow scenario really can infantilise the not-so-rich relatives. Knowing they will be bailed out can make a weak personality not try so hard to make their own way in the world. Resting on their richer relative's laurels, IYSWIM. It's sad, because the infantilised relative is so very unlikely to achieve the potential they would have had, had they not regarded personal effort as optional Sad.

"Apparently he had told a family member before his death (in an accident) that they weren't happy and were about to divorce."
Maybe. Or maybe the family member is wildly exaggerating an off-the-cuff comment to justify their own bitterness.

rollonthesummer · 09/01/2016 22:10

"Apparently he had told a family member before his death (in an accident) that they weren't happy and were about to divorce."
Maybe. Or maybe the family member is wildly exaggerating an off-the-cuff comment to justify their own bitterness.

Yes, that was my first thought, too!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/01/2016 11:43

Mine also Hmm

I imagine that, in a small part of themselves they prefer not to examine, the scrounging family know they're behaving badly - so it's perhaps not surprising if they invent things to make themselves look less awful to others

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 10/01/2016 17:01

Update if anyone has the patience- another pleading text today from bil, saying sil knows about the loan. We were both sure he was lying and were also sure that sil would not accept any money from us. So I made dh text her saying we understand from bil they need a loan, we are there for them and will transfer the funds tomorrow.

Text immediately back from sil saying please do NOT send the money, that bil would have to learn to live more within their budget, and that she has savings. Cue another text from bil half an hour later, asking for 'just' £500. Dh has ignored the text.

Sadly, he will never give up and if sil ever brings it up with me (I don't think she will), I have decided I will indeed tell her about the large sum 8/9 years ago.

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suzannecaravaggio · 10/01/2016 17:10

Hormonal, in your shoes I think my concern would be about getting sucked into a dispute between them, that could all get very complex and unpleasant.

I would tell them both that I wanted to stay out of their arguments and that dont want to be a party to any of it.
Perhaps forward to sil any texts from bil, and vice versa
that should shut them up!

GloriaHotcakes · 10/01/2016 17:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.