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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Lending money to brother in law

267 replies

HormonalHeap · 05/01/2016 09:28

Brother in law is married but regularly asks dh (his brother) for loans on the quiet, asking that we don't tell my sil. The texts are pleading and using wording that will pull on dh's heartstrings.

Seems a strange marriage as sil inherited a lot of money and treats bil to lovely holidays etc but expects bil to pay some bills- but when he can't (work sporadic), he turns to dh. Dh told him we're happy to lend them money providing it's above board (ie she knows). He's now told bil it's me that feels we should only lend money with sil's knowledge.

Backstory is around 9 years ago, dh lent him an astronomical sum which he's never had back and written off. He also owed his sister money. Having said that, last time he borrowed money he paid back. Dh is making me feel like a bitch for saying no, but i'm just so sick of dh's kindness being abused.

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Original poster
HormonalHeap · 10/01/2016 17:43

Thanks Suzanne we are absolutely not going to get involved in their arguments. They are apparently still together- goodness knows where it will end

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AyeAmarok · 10/01/2016 17:50

FFS. Is tour DH not absolutely livid that his brother is lying to him?! The one condition your DH put on this was that he had to tell SIL, and he lied.

Or is your DH feeling sorry for him because he's so penniless and desperate...

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/01/2016 18:02

I hope neither of you are surprised at this latest piece of farce, Hormonal? As ayeamorak said, DH made only one stipulation and BIL won't even keep to that

He's doing this for only two reasons: because he can, and because it's always worked for him so far. After infantalising his brother for so long only DH can stop this, and for all your sakes I very much hope he does

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 10/01/2016 18:23

Yes dh is used to his lies but feels sorry for him because he's spineless and never a success at anything. He has an adult dd who has been nc with him since she was a small child. No surprises there.

Dh has promised no more hidden money. He says if they as a couple are in dire straights he will help them out, but I pointed out that would definitely mean no more cruises till it had been repaid in full. If she has savings they can use that.

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WhereYouLeftIt · 10/01/2016 21:46

"... if sil ever brings it up with me (I don't think she will), I have decided I will indeed tell her about the large sum 8/9 years ago."
If I were your SIL, I would want to know. Because it is very likely he has lied to this woman from the start to persuade her to marry him. I do hope she has secured her inheritance onto her children so that he cannot touch it.

DontMindMe1 · 10/01/2016 22:40

one of my younger brothers was behaving like your bil, he too was married and he also had a gf on the side - and a dc with each woman. no regular income, arguments, threats and of course the obligatory causing hell for the family if they refused to give/lend him money yet again.

it only stopped when my parents and the rest of the siblings finally stepped back and stopped enabling him. no more lending money - either live within your means or get a regular paying job like other people do. no more letting him stay with parents/siblings for ANY length of time - either get a job and afford your own place or go see the homeless housing dept at the council. he was also banned from stepping foot in my parents and siblings homes until he improved his attitude and stopped the name calling, threats and generally abusive and passive aggressive behaviour. it took a long while but it worked....and only because everyone was on the same page about it.

re suicidal threats etc, we just replied 'ok, if you're telling us that then we're forced to let your gp know for your own safety' - and we did each time he made that threat. we knew he was bullshitting but were determined to make him understand that WE were not taking ownership of his issues. he thought he could still play us all and one day he rang us saying he'd taken an overdose of Tarmadol, we called gp and ambulance - he got all the attention and drama he was looking for - until he got to hospital. you see, after all the reported suicide threats and suicidal behaviour and then this actual attempt - the medical staff thought it appropriate for him to be sectioned for his own safety. once he realised that they were serious and that his games had backfired on him he miraculously got better.....

your dh is infantilising bil. i don't know which world he lives in but in the one i live in 50 isn't too old to get a job and pay your own way in life. there is nothing stopping either of you from being blunt with bil and telling him to sort his shit out because he won't be living with you when his wife throws him out and neither will you be paying his housing costs.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/01/2016 23:15

Superb post, dontmindme - I'm really sorry you had to go through a similar thing, but massively impressed with the way you dealt with it Smile

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 11/01/2016 11:09

DontMindMe I'm also massively impressed especially with your parents for whom it must have been beyond hard. But as you say, everyone has to be on the same page and be determined.

She has definitely taken precautions with her money. Although if I was in a happy marriage, I would also want to make sure my husband was provided for. The whole set up seems wrong and they probably should never have got married.

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AyeAmarok · 11/01/2016 15:01

Although if I was in a happy marriage, I would also want to make sure my husband was provided for.

If I was in a relationship with someone with the attitude to money your BIL has I'd be actively trying to keep as much of my/our money away from him so there was still something left for my children. Because truly, if he had access to it, it'd be gone.

Like I said, the more money you throw at him, the more he swallows.

She is being inherently sensible keeping money away from him.

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 12/01/2016 22:03

Meanwhile they're still partying, out at theatre and elsewhere- feel like clobbering dh for being so stupid!

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WhereYouLeftIt · 12/01/2016 22:19

I don't think your husband has been stupid. His uncle normalised the behaviour within the family; that the one with money doled it out whenever asked, and the ones with less asked and asked and asked. If anything, your husband has been 'groomed' by the entire family to step into the uncle's shoes. Plus, "Apparently bil has always been a nightmare, and dh's family are terrified that if he and sil split, the beast will be unleashed." Your husband has been under pressure, both from the family and himself, to not let that happen. And with "Dh's whole family have a history of turning to dh to sort out their problems (usually financial but not always)." he's been 'groomed' to take responsibility that isn't his.

IMO he has not been stupid - he has been manipulated.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/01/2016 22:30

Meanwhile they're still partying, out at theatre and elsewhere- feel like clobbering dh for being so stupid!

That's understandable, but just out of interest - how does he feel about it?

Look on the bright side, though: at least BIL obviously didn't really need that £2000 / £500 Wink

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 12/01/2016 23:18

WhereYouLeftIt, yes- but what upsets me is that he's happy to be manipulated for a quiet life. Interestingly, someone in his immediate family told him he was "the glue that binds them all together". I would phrase that differently!!

Puzzled I haven't had a chance to tell him about their latest trips shown on Facebook- but no doubt dh will sheepishly admit I was right not to send money- he knows sil has money but has literally been paying to keep things on track with them.

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suzannecaravaggio · 12/01/2016 23:49

what upsets me is that he's happy to be manipulated for a quiet life

it's understandable that you would feel like that but many people do choose the path of least resistance when in a difficult situation.
There may be a feeling of 'better the devil you know' (as opposed to the threatened chaos of unleashing 'the beast')
Not meaning to defend him but presume he will get the blame if things go pear shaped for his brother, he may find that idea hard to deal with?

WhereYouLeftIt · 12/01/2016 23:50

"what upsets me is that he's happy to be manipulated for a quiet life"
If you look on it as having been groomed, then when he tries to go against the grooming it will 'feel wrong' and make him anxious. Appearing to be happy to be manipulated may be more 'relief from the anxiety of trying not to be manipulated' than happiness IYSWIM? We are all naturally compliant (can you tell I've been watching Derren Brown on TV tonight Grin?) and being compliant to his family's demands has been strongly reinforced (by his family).

Try to think of something you were brought up to do, something innocuous like be polite. And think how hard you'd find it to be impolite, how embarrassed you'd feel, and the relief you'd feel when you were allowed to be polite again. I'd guess it's really hard for your husband to go against his conditioning - it would be for any of us. Maybe he buys 'a quiet life' this time, hoping there will be no next time, or that he'll be able to deal with it differently then.

But YANBU to be upset that your husband is being shamelessly manipulated by his family.

plainjanine · 13/01/2016 09:58

It sounds to me like SIL has money and wants to enjoy the lifestyle, but feels scared or resentful of BIL, as he will happily spend her into the ground given a free hand. He probably lies to her, too (hence the secrecy over the loans), so she's trying to instill some backbone and sense of responsibility in BIL. Maybe she's sick of bailing him out, too?

His tearful calls are as a result of him being faced with the prospect of having to go out and actually earn some money himself. Maybe he doesn't see why he should have to earn money when she has enough for both of them (in his mind). Maybe she is struggling to stay with a man she can't respect.

She's certainly done the right thing in protecting her money (and childrens' inheritence) from him, given his irresponsibility.

Tough love is required!

Original poster
HormonalHeap · 13/01/2016 10:42

I think also to add to the mix that dh feels guilty that he's always been more capable than bil- I think that's what's driving him, though I wouldn't argue that he has been manipulated.

Plainjanine you're right, she wants to enjoy a great lifestyle but is definitely resentful of bil. Oh well, all gone quiet.. till next time. Thanks for all your views, they've given me a better perspective x

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