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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Shaken and freaked out. Future rapist for sure

255 replies

Chitterchatter1 · 30/12/2015 12:03

I went to visit a family friend who has recently lost her father. She lives in another town, so I drove and slept there.
We spent the evening drinking and reminiscing about her father. Her half brother was there with a friend. A very familial atmosphere. Lots of chatter. At leaving time the friend offered to walk us home. On arrival it got weird . It started with him insisting to come in. We politely declined. He got aggressive started talking all sexual and vulgar and tried to push his way into the house. We were pleading screaming for him to leave. He got his leg into the house, and his arm around the door and was jammed there, with both of us pushing the door closed. He must have been in agony bot refused to leave. It was scary. If we had been weaker, or alone he could have got in. He is a young man 20 ish. This lasted for about 10 minutes. My friend does not want to call the police . Her dad just died and I guess she has dynamics to consider. I think this man is a future rapist and deserves to be arrested.

OP posts:
wonkylampshade · 30/12/2015 16:33

I'd go as far as to say it would be unconscionable not to report this incident. You were both extremely fortunate that he didn't get to carry out his attack last night to a greater extent.

He could well be angry that things didn't go his way, and upset that you've told people about it. He sounds like a deranged mysogenist and the next woman or girl he tries this with could be on the receiving end of some warped punishment for what he might perceive as a thwart or failure.

You cannot in all seriousness keep this to yourselves. It'd be dangerous beyond belief to do so. Please please consider all the women he will come into contact with from now on.

Flowers for your friend - if you are reading, please do the right thing.

inlovewithhubby · 30/12/2015 16:39

I'm another one who thinks you are kind of obligated to report it. Your friend is bereaved and probably not thinking straight. Even if you risk her being pissed off at you, you are undoubtedly helping to avoid future victims, and that's a no brainer.

inlovewithhubby · 30/12/2015 16:40

And well done for being so strong about it all, that sort if thing can shake up the strongest of people so don't be surprised if you feel a bit wobbly in certain situations for a while.

Wombatinabathhat · 30/12/2015 16:51

by not contacting the police you are putting many other younger and older ladies at risk.

OP = Please ignore this rubbish. You are not responsible for this arse hole's actions.

I think you should report this to the police, although I do feel sorry for how your friend feels about it. It doesn't matter that you don't know his surname. Thanks

Dipankrispaneven · 30/12/2015 16:51

I'm sorry OP but all I can think of is this arsehole lying in wait for a time when your friend, or you, is alone, and having another crack at it.

This! And he now reckons he'll get away with it because she's too scared to report it. And is probably angry because you told his friend. For the safety of both of you, you absolutely have to report this without any delay.

Pipistrella · 30/12/2015 16:58

I think I'd actually be more concerned about reporting a more minor incident if that makes sense.

I was assaulted by a member of staff at my child's school, several years ago. I reported it to the police and it was logged. I also reported it to the school. The school were unable to do anything much - though it transpired it wasn't the first time, it had happened to just about every female staff member as well, and no one had said anything on record. They never expected it to happen to a parent.

Apparently I was the first person to want to act, and so it all fell onto my head. The HT wasn't going to sack him; all he would get was a note on his file, but he'd still keep his job, and I'd stll see him at the school.

I wasn't willing to take the rap for all of it as I lived alone and was scared of him - he'd probably got access to school systems and could find my address. So I said they could have a word but not make it official as that wouldn't accomplish anything.

After that he used to stalk me in his car - he would drive past and park up the road watching me. He was a total bastard.

Eventually we got a new HT and he made sure this person 'retired' as soon as he took over, having been made aware of the circumstances.

Now he works somewhere else, and every day I regret not taking it further, but at least the police know about it so if he does try anything in future and if anyone does report it, or he falls under suspicion for something else, they will have the incident on file and it makes it easier for them.

You could think about logging it and asking them not to take it further as you don't want to press charges.

I think I'd be inclined to press charges in that circumstance precisely because he seems so dangerous, but then, I'm not you and not your friend and I can see why you might not want to.

HelpfulChap · 30/12/2015 17:01

Report it and get him on the police's radar.

Pipistrella · 30/12/2015 17:01

The thing is though, because I had reported him, he knew he would be in trouble if he tried it on again. So sitting watching me from his car was all the poor old wanker could do.

I am glad I reported him. I think it helped protect me as he would probably have turned up at my house at some point if I hadn't. He might even have waited for me and done something worse.

I think it makes sense, therefore, to report.

Bunbaker · 30/12/2015 17:01

"She is scared to go to the police. She lives in a small town. She is scared he could come back."

Does she honestly think that not reporting this to the police is going to stop him?

The damage to the door and bruising to his leg will provide the police with forensic evidence that the attack actually took place.

If she won't talk to the police you should. You should also tell them that your friend is scared to talk to them and why. FGS this is why we have a police force. You also need to do this asap before the evidence disappears and before they get too busy on NYE.

Just do it. You have a moral obligation to protect your friend and all other women from this predatory male.

Pipistrella · 30/12/2015 17:03

He might give your mate some filthy looks in future. But he will be too scared to actually attack her, IMO.

If you don't report then he might feel he can get away with it.

maketheworldgoaway · 30/12/2015 17:10

If you're still unsure OP - You mentioned his ranting appeared to be delusional. Maybe he is?.

I've worked in forensic MH with sex offenders in the past. Many were sex offenders who just happened to have a MH problem iyswim but a few were sex offenders because they were psychotic and delusional.

And everyone who harms anyone is responsible for that. I am making no excuses for anyone at all. Please don't flame me. Most sex offenders are just that - sex offenders. But are few are ill and he might be one.

So this might not just be about you reporting this because he terrified you and you're worried he's a risk to others - he might be ill. And reporting this to the Police means that if they get any hint of him being mentally unwell - he'll be assessed and get help and in getting help he'll be risk assessed and possibly admitted to hospital which will keep other people safe.

DoreenLethal · 30/12/2015 17:11

She is scared to go to the police. She lives in a small town. She is scared he could come back

Yes that is why she should report it! He does it again and it's a first offence whilst he concocts some story to cover himself.

oneowlgirl · 30/12/2015 17:13

Glad you're ok Op but please report this. As others have pointed out, this happened to you too so you don't need your friends permission nor do you need to know his surname - the police can find that out.

Please do it soon so the physical evidence is still there also.

Good luck.

QuizteamBleakley · 30/12/2015 17:16

As all PP's have said: please, please report this. I'm a former police officer, latterly with Major Investigations Team; I can reassure you that you wouldn't need to know his surname. Please, please report this.

Atomik & NewAC Flowers x

Atomik · 30/12/2015 17:29

Chatterbox and Chatterbox's friend

It has to feel like there is a lot of obligation being placed at your feet. At a moment when you possibly already feel brought low by the weight of fear, dread, disbelief and godawful memories and flashbacks.

Here's the thing. Reporting is not an obligation. It's a choice. He didn't give you one. But in this, it is truly a choice you get to take, or not take. And what he does next is no more your fault than the next people killing earthquake will be your fault.

It's a big ask, to go to the police station, re-live what happened, make it into something that you can't try to bury in a deep part of your head, but instead have it potentially intrude on your life for some time to come. You can only take that on if you choose to. It's worth weighing in the enormity of reporting against the hugeness of not reporting in balanced terms. While reporting carries its own price, so too does not reporting. It can be intensely hard to repair the damage done when the aftermath left you no space to take back some of your power. When there has been no price to pay for the person who stole your sense of security and safety. When you have seen your "hard won over the decades" confidence splutter and die like a tea light in a hurricane.

My first husband was Thai. I lived in Bangkok for years with half of former DH's family in entities such as army, medicine, fire brigade and police. So I know the realities of a very different culture within public services. And I am well aware of the particular distain and derision that can be poured on a falang female when it comes to anything to do with her in a context that also contains a sexual element. Where you have been labelled a repository for "free sex", you can find yourself at the lowest end of totem pole when it comes to respectful and sympathetic treatment during one of the worst moments of your life. So I wholly understand any rising panic that reporting would be worse than the assault.

Only one of you needs to report. It might not go very far. I'm not in Britain, so the law may be different, but while both of you two may not be in any doubt as per his intentions, thanks to your powerful fight back and successful, collaborative self defence .... he failed in his attack. Which means there may be only a very minor case for him to answer. Which may never make it to court. You have CPS hurling things out of the court queue. I have a system that times cases out. It might feel like an awful lot of costly effort for potentially very little. But whatever the outcome, his card will be marked. And you wielded the pen. He took so much from you, he deserves to be made to carry a mark that will make his future denials sound very hollow.

Britian is not Thailand. I don't doubt that it's not paradise. I left in 89, I know it's come a long way,p since the but it won't be Utopia. However... it's not Thailand. Neither of you will need to face a demon on a scale of that which wreaked havoc in the past.

The reason why it is worth one of you, or both of you, considering reporting is because in this you have a choice. Knowing you have a choice is important, especially so soon after somebody made it clear they didn't share the view that you get to pick what you do. But knowing you have a choice doesn't make choosing easy. I doubted my sanity after reporting myself, especially once the fucker was in handcuffs and the police expected me to sit in the back of the policecar...right next to him, in order to transport all of us back to the station to process him. They reacted like I was a "hysterical female" when I dug my heels in and refused point blank to be in the same car at all. I felt stupid for having run in a straight line from point of attempted assault to police station, given that it successfully made me so very small and weak twice over in just a few hours. If the event was so minor for everybody else, how come it felt so huge and "squashing me" to me. Ergo, initially reporting made me doubt my ability to realistically judge reality and react appropriately to it.

But later on, reporting it was revealed as an experience defining, positive action for me. Despite his view of me as a disposable, sub-human, the police acting like I was making a big fuss about nothing, certain people locally joking that an "old hen" like myself should be grateful for the attentions of young buck. All that hurt in one way or another. But it can't take away that I feel like I took my power back. I made his life harder. I knocked his confidence with regards to doing this again and getting away with it. I did for other women. But the biggest winner of reporting has been me.

I lost everything I thought I was in an unexpected moment on a rural road. I have a child, and I chose the potential to die under a speeding car rather than being raped. I made a priority of me not wanting to be violated, at the expense of my son's rather pressing need not to be rendered motherless. I don't know how I could have come back from that inside my own head if I hadn't reported him. I needed something to show myself that how I reacted, instinctively in full blown panic, doesn't define me. What defined me was how I reacted when the immediate danger had past. And while the process brought me to my knees sometimes, it gave me the small blocks with which I could cobble together a foundation and rebuild my own vision of who I am.

Fucked up isn't it ? What one vicious man can do to the insides our heads. How much they can create an internal process were we pick apart and find ways to blame ourselves instead of them.

I've rambled. I did have a point. I almost never talk about this and rarely let myself think about it, so I go off kilter with newly released feelings that dance about in my brain fucking up my train of thought when I do. But

Reporting is the single most useful outcome for future victims. But not reporting does not make you responsible for their existence. That's on him.

Reporting is hard and painful. But so is not reporting. He, the bastard, put you in this place. None of your choices include a reset button. They all carry costs for both of you.

Reporting can give you back what look like insignificant, tiny crumbs of power, that come at a considerable cost. But getting whole self back can sometimes need those crumbs more than it needs to avoid the costs.

Report, or do not report. You have a choice. It has to be a wholly free choice. I can share with you why I feel it turned out to be the absolutely best thing I could have done for me. But I have no crystal ball that can translate that into any prophecies for either of you 2.

And that is why it has to be your choice. No judgement. No obligation.

Never forget that when it comes to responsibility for what happened to you, what might happen to somebody else... it's his. Not yours.

wotoodoo · 30/12/2015 17:31

I was 15 years old when I was attacked by someone I thought was a kind old gentleman who had befriended me out cycling over several months.

I had no idea he would drag me off my bike and try to stick his disgusting tongue in my mouth while feeling me up and then say 'sorry, this is just between you and me, right?'

I was numb with shock, did not have a mother who I could turn to so told my friend's mother who promptly rang the police on my behalf.

Thank god I told someone as I was like all the other posters who just wanted to forget about it and felt guilt thinking it was somehow my fault.

Anyway, thank god I told someone because the police got back in touch to say that he later attempted rape on another girl a year younger than me and based on our evidence he was jailed.

So op even if you or your friend cannot bring yourself to report him let others know who can. My definition of being an enabler is obvious different from some others on this thread. My definition is that you enable someone to continue by inaction.

Aeroflotgirl · 30/12/2015 17:36

I am sorry for my clumsy wording, of course it is nobody fault but the attackers, what I meant that it is in public interests and safety for this crime to be reported. He is a danger whilst he is out there, it could happen again.

Doublebubblebubble · 30/12/2015 17:44

Reporting is the single most useful outcome for future victims. But not reporting does not make you responsible for their existence. That's on him

Whole post brilliantly put Atomik

Bunbaker · 30/12/2015 18:16

Reporting is the single most useful outcome for future victims. But not reporting does not make you responsible for their existence. That's on him

I agree with this, but I also think that not reporting him could possibly make it possible for him to attack other women.

HoHoHoandaBottleOfRum · 30/12/2015 18:27

Your darling friend's judgement and decision making will be hugely askew right now via last night per se and the (truly horrendous) triggering, but ours - all of us here - is not. You have multiple posts telling you the same thing and you must now act on that given the (unspeakable) possibilities that 1-5 HAVE now created.

In some respects its not even fair to be discussing this with your friend.,
There is no harm in calling the 101 number and just asking them what they think.

You are a separate human being, she has emotional ties and trauma right now.

Just seize the bull yourself, pick up the phone and do the right thing.

Do the right thing op.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 30/12/2015 18:40

Atomik's post gives excellent advice.

howtorebuild · 30/12/2015 18:45

One thing I learned is nip things in the bud and get evidence. His leg injuries and the door are your evidence.

ErTutMirLeid · 30/12/2015 21:12

Have NC for this post, it's identifying.

I was raped when I was 15 by a friend's step father. I didn't report, because I thought no-one would believe me, despite there being evidence of force. It was a different time, and even now, the police aren't always all they should be when it comes to handling victims. It would have been his word against mine, he was the pillar of the community sort.

My question is for those who have been saying that if chitter or chitter's friend don't report, then they are in some way doing the wrong thing. That they should think of women he might attack after them, that by their inaction they will be enabling him to do worse.

What percentage of the blame do I bear for not reporting him, and him going on to rape two other members of our friendship group?

What percentage of the blame do the girls he raped before me bear for him raping me?

I'm not trying to make this all about me and I'd rather not do a TAAT so I have really to ask on this one. What would you have told the terrified, bleeding, 15 year old me was my portion of the blame for this man's actions?

I have nothing but admiration for your courage Atomik. I am so sorry this happens to so many women and girls every day.

labelloy · 30/12/2015 21:23

I was raped when I was 16. I reported it, didn't think of not doing so and it wasn't too difficult or emotionally demanding. Had a statement taken and swabs etc. But when it was referred to the CPS, they felt there wasn't enough evidence to take it to trial. This isn't at all uncommon.

Twenty years later, I read in the press that he'd finally been sentenced for kidnap and rape. Personally, I have no doubt that there were other victims during those twenty years. He got nine years and will be out in half that time, and will probably go on to commit more.

I don't think my report had any bearing on his recent case. So whether the OP reports or not, it may not make any difference on whether there are any further victims. There probably will be, because sex offenders of this type tend to escalate their behaviour over time. If the OP reports, it may or may not lead to any kind of conviction, but even if it does sentences are often so short that it doesn't serve as any kind of prevention against future attacks.

DartmoorDoughnut · 30/12/2015 21:24

Hope your friend and you are ok ChitterChatter please report him, he sounds terrifyingly dangerous Sad