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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not punish DD for hitting her dad?

189 replies

livvielunch · 24/12/2015 23:00

DD is 4 and undergoing assessment for autism. She has a multitude of sensory processing issues and hates physical contact of any sort, particularly affection. She will actually scream and cry if she thinks anyone (I.e. approaching grandparents) may try and hug her. Despite this, DP insists on trying to kiss and hug her. This morning she was playing and he said goodbye to her as he was going out. She blanked him, as is usual. He said can I have a kiss, she flinched and shook her hear violently, turned away from him and continued playing. He leaned round with his lips puckered inches from her face and she slapped him in it. He was angry and stomped off mumbling 'love you too' and later said I should've stepped in and punished DD for her aggression. I said I think he should respect her wishes not to be hounded for affection and that he deserved it, really. Aibu?

OP posts:
NickiFury · 24/12/2015 23:32

And his right to kiss his child doesn't trump her right to be left alone. There'd be no need for punishment or any upset if he did that.

Original poster
livvielunch · 24/12/2015 23:32

AtSea DP is the adult here who should be understanding boundaries, surely??

OP posts:
wizzywig · 24/12/2015 23:33

Hi atsea. No i dont reprimand him for doing that. I admit, its very very rare for him to hit someone. But i think people should respect others feelings about personal space. I dont like this whole "oh give xyz a kiss" just because they they are a friend or relative

SouthWestmom · 24/12/2015 23:33

No Calleigh, there's an expected level of behaviour re: hitting people and the rest of my post made it clear that the context was how able the dd would be to understand this.

AtSea1979 · 24/12/2015 23:34

OP does your DP know much about ASD? You last statement is quite worrying.
Your DD will have to conform and toe the line to a extent in many environments but home is somewhere she should be able to stim and relax. It seems your DP has very little understanding of that and actually sounds quite mean.

AtSea1979 · 24/12/2015 23:37

X-post OP. Yes DP needs to learn boundaries but so does DD. They both crossed it. If I was you, I would have reprimanded both.

Dipankrispaneven · 24/12/2015 23:37

He really needs to get his head round the nature of ASD and sensory difficulties. His conduct would have been really distressing for her, to the extent of being actively painful; he needs to think about the fact that, just as he wouldn't deliberately stick pins into her or twist her arm, he mustn't do something like this that will cause her pain and stress. Can you get him to read a few books about ASD?

Chopz · 24/12/2015 23:37

I think he needs to read up about kids with ASD and understand behaviour/communication.

NickiFury · 24/12/2015 23:38

Your DP sounds clueless OP. Mine was too. Very resistant and lots of talk about "needs to learn!" It just makes it all so much harder. Has he done any reading or research about her condition? I used to bombard my children's father with links and emails etc. some of it eventually sank in but the thing that worked the most was being sat in a room with five professionals including a Developmental paediatrician confirming all issues. He took them seriously. He's much better now.

Original poster
livvielunch · 24/12/2015 23:38

Similarly when she's starting to get upset about something I've clearly said to him that he makes it worse if he tries to touch or speaks to her repeatedly. This evening she was struggling with something and starting to get frustrated so he took her arm and tried to take it from her. She shrugged him off and said no. A few seconds later he put his hand on her back. She started getting increasingly upset. He started saying her name - probably 8 or so times. She started crying properly and he kept repeating dd, let me help, dd are you listening? DD, don't ignore me. DD, you're being too loud. And trying to turn her to face him.

OP posts:
NickiFury · 24/12/2015 23:40

Sad all that's doing is bombarding her with input that she can't process.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 24/12/2015 23:41

I'm sorry. Your DP is either an arse, or, on the spectrum himself.

Why can't he see it from her point of view?

You do.

And, no, I don't see there is any point in punishing her. I see value in explaining to her that hitting people is not nice, and, giving her a different way of dealing with unwanted touch.

Equally, DP needs to recognise that no means no. Even in his daughter, whom he loves, and wants to hug.

Tough all round.

Quick, no one's looking

AtSea1979 · 24/12/2015 23:42

It's difficult. Certain deep pressure might work when she's distressed but it sounds like he hasn't got to grips with what works and what doesn't yet.
Prehaps push for a sensory profile, maybe seeing it in black and white with help your DP. Sounds like he's in denial about her ASD and still believes he can love her in to being "normal"

WorraLiberty · 24/12/2015 23:51

I'm sorry. Your DP is either an arse, or, on the spectrum himself.

Or he needs help to learn about and cope with his daughter's autism.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 25/12/2015 00:13

Worra, fair enough.

I guess I thought that, seeing as how the child is 4, he's had time to see what her mum sees.

Full disclosure - my DH is AS. And, finds our child with AS traits challenging to parent.

Irony.

Aeroflotgirl · 25/12/2015 00:13

Dh does that to dd 8 who has ASD, he needs to leRn that she does not like affection and will be rude to him.

UkmmTheSecond · 25/12/2015 00:21

My dad forced me to kiss him from toddlerhood until adulthood, ignored my no, and would "steal" kisses, pecking my cheek as he walked past etc. I truly hated it and it made me not want to be around him because I felt like I had to avoid him kissing me. I got wrong for pushing him off me, so I didn't do it again and felt disgusting for allowing someone to kiss me who I didn't want kissing me, and felt it unfair that he didn't demand kisses from my brother.

Dd didn't like anyone kissing her, I was making sure her no meant no, My dad (and a few other men in family) tried to guilt her, "if you loved me you'd kiss me" beg her to change her mind "just a little one, pleaseeeee" or feel entitled to physical affection from her cos they've given her a gift. She would say no repeatedly, he'd Tell her she's a meany, not to be silly and I had to step in when he went to physically grab her to kiss her. She's 10 now, dad died when she was 6 and her memories of her grandad are of him trying to force her to let him kiss her.

If I let him do this, then what happens if a boy does it when she's older and she thinks it's ok because her grandad does it? If the men in her life don't respect her boundaries, she won't expect others too.

It's not a message I wanted to send to her, that people can kiss you regardless of how you feel and we've talked about how if anyone makes her do things with her body that she doesn't want to, then she's to tell dh and I, or an adult she can trust.

Her dad should respect her boundaries, he should be one of the people in her life she can trust, she doesn't want to be kissed, he shouldn't kiss her. It may a quick harmless peck to him but if your dd feels differently and doesn't want it, he puts his wants aside and respects her wishes. I couldn't punish my dd if she reacted to unwanted physical affection with a slap, her words didn't stop him doing it so she tried a different approach. (I'd want to slap someone kissing me when they knew I didn't want it too tbh) I'd be telling my dh he needs to apologise to dd and promise her to not do it again.

Hope you manage to sort it and have a lovely Christmas Flowers

Brioche201 · 25/12/2015 00:28

Sorry I don't agree.autism is not a get out of jail free card.at 4 she is quite old enough to understand you do not lash out.is she going to slap kids who annoy her at school?

gamerchick · 25/12/2015 00:32

My autistic 8 yr old is behind emotionally, he still gets fed weaning food and for the first time this year has truly understood Santa to be pinging off the walls.

Is your 4 yr old autistic child in line with their peers in understanding brioche ?

MinesAPintOfTea · 25/12/2015 00:34

Brioche asd may not be, bit defending yourself from unwanted physical contact is. He shouldn't be forcing her into kisses.

Thornrose · 25/12/2015 00:37

autism is not a get out of jail free card.at 4 she is quite old enough to understand you do not lash out.

Really? How old is your child with ASD. How did you teach her/him not to react like this?

definitelybutter1 · 25/12/2015 00:49

AtSea you said, This is a little girl and her father. No one deserves to be hit by their DC just because they try to love them in their own way

At what age does a female have a right to say no to touching when it isn't wanted? At eighteen can she say she doesn't want to be touched? Twenty one? Forty? Or is she never, ever allowed to say no and if she does she deserves punishment? What males have the right to force her to accept touching? Is it only fathers that can force females to accept unwanted contact? Can they transfer this right for a female to accept unwanted contact? Is there any sort of contact that a female can refuse? Or should they be trained from a very early age that they have to shut up and accept that they do not have control over their own body?

That repeated touching and name-saying - as far as I know I am not on the spectrum but that would get a bad reaction from me as well. It's saying that the child has no right to their own feelings, they must conform to what the parents thing that they ought to feel. The repetition of the name is also a tactic of bullies.

sleeponeday · 25/12/2015 00:56

Brioche do you have an autistic child? Confused

OP, she hates to be touched, she made her not wanting him to touch her plain, he ignored her. I spend my life teaching my DS (who, as part of his autism, doesn't pick up on non-verbal social cues) not to hug or kiss people who seem non-receptive, because it's their body, and their choice.

4 is old enough not to be forced into physical affection you do not feel comfortable with. Ask your DH if he thinks that is a good message to send - that a guy who wants to kiss you is entitled to do so, and your feelings don't matter? I don't think the autism is relevant, frankly. The person in the wrong is your husband - no, she shouldn't have hit him, but he is as much to blame as she is in what he did, and he is not 4.

If she gets "the label" he will be entitled to the Early Bird course, which is great on strategies with ASD kids. He really needs to enrol. And I am honestly not meaning this in any way offensively, (I don't regard autism as solely negative and nor do I see it as shameful) but does your husband also display some traits? You've described mind-blindness, and an inability to pick up on physical messages sent by another person, in how he behaves with your DD. My husband also shows signs, and as his own father as well as our DS are autistic, that's hardly surprising. I'm not saying your DH is autistic, just that it's surprising how often parents with autistic kids will recognise traits in themselves, one another, and the wider family. Autism is, after all, part of the human condition - it's not called a spectrum for nothing.

CalleighDoodle · 25/12/2015 01:02

atsea because he tried to love her in his own way?! Ffs listen to yourself.

noeuf im pretty sure if someone tried to kiss you against your will it is expected you will try to defend yourself.

Take away any mention of ASD. Take away the age. Take it fown to the bare bones. A male frequently tries to make a female kiss him. She makes it clear she doesn't want him to. He does it anyway. What do you want her to learn? What do you want him to learn? Id hooe you want her to learn that she has a right to not have someone force themself on her. Id hope you think he should learn he has no right to expect to liss someone who doeant want to kiss him.

Shelby2010 · 25/12/2015 01:06

Your DH clearly doesn't get it, and no, DD shouldn't be punished. However could you teach her to blow kisses? It may not mean much to DD, but DH & grandparents are welcome to read as much affection into it as they choose. If DD will do this then the adults might be trained to stay more hands off?

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