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Original poster

Where do you stand on this one...

419 replies

Marilynsbigsister · 15/12/2015 17:13

I'm not going to NC but will be slightly oblique about circumstances as quite identifying . Two very young 20 yr olds in a relationship. Been together 3 months. Male at Uni but lives at home, female working also living at home. The boy has mentioned to his parents (actually his mum mostly) that cracks are starting to appear because she is keen to move on to the next level and is putting the pressure on to get a flat together and 'settle down'. Boy has told her 'definitely not at the moment' his plans include post graduate study abroad for a couple of years . Anyway, the dilemma.. 2 days after the 'settle down' conversation, there was a contraception failure. Condom split, (apparently it was not just a small tear but from top all way to base. ) Boy has been taught from early on that he must be responsible for his own fertility and insisted on condoms as he is adamant he doesn't want children yet although gf is on the pill. Boy is now beside himself with worry, he begged his gf to go with him to get morning after pill. Gf reaction has been to refuse saying that if she gets pregnant against all these odds then it is meant to be . Boy is the sort to do the right thing. Would give up career goals of he had children to support. I know all the ins and outs because mum is close relative. Mum believes gf is manipulating her son into parenthood because this happened literally a couple of days after discussing settling down. What is the right thing to do if she is pregnant. ? Does he give up his plans and support a child he does not wish to have, took precautions to avoid and made his feelings very clear BEFORE conception. Or does he suck it up, leave Uni and get a job to support the child and learn never again have sex with someone he doesn't want to have a child with. ? For my part I have met the gf a few times so not enough to form an opinion except that she is much more mature than her boyfriend. (My relative is livid and truly believes she 'doctored the condoms - which would be impossible - she is too angry to be logical !)
BTW she was due AF on Monday. Apparently there are pts that are accurate to a few days late so all a bit tense in female relatives household at the moment.

OP posts:
Preminstreltension · 15/12/2015 20:14

I don't think that's what anyone's saying.

Personally I think termination is actively good option in this situation. I hate the way we have to talk about it as if it's the worst thing ever. It's not. It's potentially liberating. You shouldn't have an abortion if you don't want one - that's for sure. And no man should force you into one. But it's a very valid option for any young woman with her whole life ahead of her and facing this situation.

Preminstreltension · 15/12/2015 20:15

sorry, that was to aye

RudeElf · 15/12/2015 20:16

Can anyone explain how the woman is supposed to have willfully damaged the condom in such a way that the man didn't notice when he put it on?

Irrelevant to the thread but i just want to say that it is possible for a condom to be sabotaged and neither party realise when putting it on. Sadly I know this thanks to my EXp having done it to me when he found i had a new partner.

kali110 · 15/12/2015 20:18

Rude- how awful!!

This lad has done everything to avoid pregnancy also.

RudeElf · 15/12/2015 20:18

Personally I think termination is actively good option in this situation. I hate the way we have to talk about it as if it's the worst thing ever. It's not. It's potentially liberating. You shouldn't have an abortion if you don't want one - that's for sure. And no man should force you into one. But it's a very valid option for any young woman with her whole life ahead of her and facing this situation.

Totally agree. Abortion is often the best option for many situations. It is ok to think that. Only the opinion of the pregnant person matters so it is up to them but thinking they should have one is fine.

Whocansay · 15/12/2015 20:19

I'm on the fence with this one. He wouldn't be the first bloke to get a girl pregnant and then make up pack of lies to protect himself.

If the situation is as described, he has to support any child. But he certainly doesn't have to stay with the mother. I would say the best way to support his child in the long run is to continue with his education. And be more careful with his birth control.

But really everyone should mind their own business. It's between him and his girlfriend. You can't live their lives for them.

VestalVirgin · 15/12/2015 20:28

Men have the beautiful, perfect contraception option to not stick their dicks into women who want to "settle down".

Condoms have a risk of failure. Everyone knows that. Everyone also knows that women can NEVER run away from a pregnancy. Abortion or the MAP are no "go back in time, make that it didn't happen" thing. They are ways of dealing with what has happened. Decisions a woman will have to live with for the rest of her life.

Not paying child support? Really? It is not the potential child's fault that those two people made bad choices.

Really, maybe we should raise the age of consent to 25. Still no guarantee, but men might be a bit more mature then.

leghoul · 15/12/2015 20:28

failure rates of contraception - OCP approaching 10%.. so, given real life variability, it could happen

ImtheChristmasCarcass · 15/12/2015 20:32

Mother of two sons here. Yes, of course he will have to support any child that results from this 'accident'. But he also needs to break it off with this girl right away, making it clear to her that he will support the child if she's pregnant, but that she needs to understand that he does not see a future with her and that they are no longer a couple. She needs to have a clear picture of her future, right now. If she's as many young girls, I'm sure she's picturing picket fences and happy families and might possibly delay telling him until it's too late to do something about it thinking he'll 'come round'. If she knows that she will be bringing this child up as a lone parent rather than as a couple, it may affect her decision to keep or terminate the pregnancy.

VestalVirgin · 15/12/2015 20:32

This lad has done everything to avoid pregnancy also.

No, he hasn't. Doing everything to avoid pregnancy would mean to, you know, not have sex. It is quite simple.

By having sex he accepted the risk of fathering a child. Boys who feel too immature to become fathers should delay that a bit.

Preminstreltension · 15/12/2015 20:35

vestal we wouldn't say that to a woman. We wouldn't say to a teenage girl or young woman you may not have sex unless you are mature enough to become a mother and willing to take on those responsibilities. Now that really is turning the clock back.

WhereYouLeftIt · 15/12/2015 20:53

Absolutely agree with ImtheChristmasCarcass - the sooner he makes it clear that the relationship is over, the better for both of them. False hope, which COULD be engendered by him delaying telling her it is over, is really when you think of it, quite unkind.

Yes he would have to support any child born of this relationship.
No he should not leave university and get a job. (The child will be better supported in the long rung by a father earning good money because of his degree.)

PartridgeFairysparkles · 15/12/2015 20:53

Er, yes you would if you have an ounce of common sense.

RudeElf · 15/12/2015 20:58

We wouldn't say to a teenage girl or young woman you may not have sex unless you are mature enough to become a mother and willing to take on those responsibilities. Now that really is turning the clock back.

Of course we should! It is a very real risk of sex! It is the primary function of sex! Our bodies are pre-programmed to create babies and no more so than when we are teen/early twenties! You'd be fucking negligent not to express that to your daughters whilst educating them about sex.

SettlinginNicely · 15/12/2015 20:59

I think we should say to young people that having sex has consequences. There are emotional and social consequences as well as the risk of unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases.

Young women have to face carrying babies they don't want, MAPs, or abortions. Young men risk becoming father's before they are ready. Young women bare the lion's share of the risk out of sex; this is the young man's portion.

I've said on several other threads recently that 16 seems young to start a sex life. And I realise that I am clearly in the minority when I say it from the responses that I get.

LeaLeander · 15/12/2015 21:07

So, Lumpy, basically you think it's OK for women to say to men "Heads I win, tails you lose" when it comes to deciding whether or not to become a parent. All the power is in the woman's hands.

Many of us women think that with 100 percent control comes a greater share of the responsibility, including the responsibility to refrain from inflicting parenthood on someone who doesn't wish to be a parent. And to refrain from inflicting a half-hearted or resentful parent on a child.

As I said before, women can ensure they do not become a parent without the need to be celibate. Why the constant drumbeat of "don't have sex if you aren't prepared to become a father" aimed at men?

If I said "Don't have sex if you aren't prepared to be a self-supporting mother" to the legions of women who pop out babies on the public dole, you'd likely be outraged. But it's OK to expect a man to "support his child" eh?

CFSsucks · 15/12/2015 21:11

I think he needs to dump her now. If she is pregnant (and I think that would have been no accident) why should he stay with her just because of that? He can still do the right thing by his child and not be with the manipulative mother.

Under no circumstances should he leave university. He shouldn't throw his future away over this.

When is she planning on taking a test? Presumably she is hoping she is so I'm guessing she will test soon.

Arfarfanarf · 15/12/2015 21:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RudeElf · 15/12/2015 21:16

Why the constant drumbeat of "don't have sex if you aren't prepared to become a father" aimed at men?

Because that is what it boils down to. If a man has sex, it is entirely possible he could become a father. This is absolutely a decision you are making when you have sex. You are choosing to be a parent, you are choosing to contract chlamydia, you are choosing to take on every possible consequence of having sex. Chances are, if you wear a condom and your partner take contraceptives then none of those things will happen. But every time you have sex you are choosing those things.

If I said "Don't have sex if you aren't prepared to be a self-supporting mother" to the legions of women who pop out babies on the public dole, you'd likely be outraged. But it's OK to expect a man to "support his child" eh?

well thats not saying the same thing to both is it? Because you arent saying to the man "self supporting father" are you? (What you actually mean here when you say it in reference to women is no support from the father). If you said "Don't have sex if you aren't prepared to be a support your child" it would be equivalent and of course, most women who have children do support them. It isnt an outrageous thing to suggest that a woman supports her child, i fail to see why it is when we say it to a man.

AyeAmarok · 15/12/2015 21:25

Honestly, I cannot believe what I'm reading here tonight Shock Confused Angry Sad

What have you lot done with the intelligent women of Mumsnet?!

Hellooooooooooooo (echoes)...

LeaLeander · 15/12/2015 21:27

I do have contempt for most mothers on welfare, and never hide it. It's 99 percent of the time the result of abysmal life choices, and very seldom the result of actual misfortune such as being stricken with a serious illness.

And I also have utter contempt for women who would trap a man into fatherhood with the sanctimonious "You should have thought! Every sex act could result in a child!" claptrap. Bet they weren't trumpeting that philosophy in the heat of the moment.

Every sex act could result in a pregnancy, I suppose, but need never result in a child without the full and enthusiastic agreement of both sex partners.

SettlinginNicely · 15/12/2015 21:31

Here is an old-fashioned, fuddy-duddy thought: people who are only 3 months into a relationship should not be facing a pregnancy scare because they shouldn't have hopped into bed so quickly in the first place.

Sex makes you vulnerable.

That's why you should go slowly and make sure you know the other person well before you jump into bed together.

RudeElf · 15/12/2015 21:33

It's 99 percent of the time the result of abysmal life choices

I know the answer already but, how have you arrived at the figure and can you link to your study on the topic? You know with all your research and data?

Arfarfanarf · 15/12/2015 21:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

harshbuttrue1980 · 15/12/2015 21:33

For those saying he should continue at university, do you think that the woman should be the only one responsible for the child? She works, but surely he should pay his share of the nappies, childcare etc? If it was my son, I would make him face his responsibilities. I'm not saying to totally give up his education, but he could be a part-time student and work the rest of the time. Or he could work full-time and study through the Open University in the evenings - hard work, but I knew a single mum who did this, why not a single dad? They BOTH have an obligation to do their best to support the baby. He's 20, and plenty of 20 year olds work, have children etc. If he's going to be a dad, the nights of drinking pints at the student union will have to end as children are expensive.

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