Where do you stand on this one...

[Marilynsbigsister]

I'm not going to NC but will be slightly oblique about circumstances as quite identifying . Two very young 20 yr olds in a relationship. Been together 3 months. Male at Uni but lives at home, female working also living at home. The boy has mentioned to his parents (actually his mum mostly) that cracks are starting to appear because she is keen to move on to the next level and is putting the pressure on to get a flat together and 'settle down'. Boy has told her 'definitely not at the moment' his plans include post graduate study abroad for a couple of years . Anyway, the dilemma.. 2 days after the 'settle down' conversation, there was a contraception failure. Condom split, (apparently it was not just a small tear but from top all way to base. ) Boy has been taught from early on that he must be responsible for his own fertility and insisted on condoms as he is adamant he doesn't want children yet although gf is on the pill. Boy is now beside himself with worry, he begged his gf to go with him to get morning after pill. Gf reaction has been to refuse saying that if she gets pregnant against all these odds then it is meant to be . Boy is the sort to do the right thing. Would give up career goals of he had children to support. I know all the ins and outs because mum is close relative. Mum believes gf is manipulating her son into parenthood because this happened literally a couple of days after discussing settling down. What is the right thing to do if she is pregnant. ? Does he give up his plans and support a child he does not wish to have, took precautions to avoid and made his feelings very clear BEFORE conception. Or does he suck it up, leave Uni and get a job to support the child and learn never again have sex with someone he doesn't want to have a child with. ? For my part I have met the gf a few times so not enough to form an opinion except that she is much more mature than her boyfriend. (My relative is livid and truly believes she 'doctored the condoms - which would be impossible - she is too angry to be logical !)
BTW she was due AF on Monday. Apparently there are pts that are accurate to a few days late so all a bit tense in female relatives household at the moment.

I've given loads of examples of situations where women don't have choice, or where they have choice but have no education, have learnt no boundaries and have no support. But you've chosen to ignore it.

Someone up thread asked why you expect women to foresee an abusive relationship but you don't expect men to be able to spot whether they are going to be tricked into fatherhood. You've avoided the question.

Someone has asked why you call women who disagree with you 'prune faced man haters'.

You have an inability to understand anyone's lives beyond your own idealistic little bubble

LeaLeander. Actually you had a choice to rise above the need to continue or engage in an argument relating to the recent death of a loved one. i won't get into a discussion with you regarding whether or not this family should have insured. It's very cold and inappropriate.

Menz rights boards dull recently leander?

To return to another PP; "If a man truly doesn't want to be a father, should he be forced into a relationship with an unwanted child?"

He should deal with it, fulfil his responsibilities and want to have a relationship with his DC!

It was not my decision to pull a real-life tragedy into the mix or use it to try to score a point, it was the other poster's. I don't think one should do something like that if one doesn't expect it to be commented upon in the context of the ongoing discussion. So if anyone was being inappropriate, it was not me.

I wasn't trying to use my cousins dh death to score points ffs! I was trying to give one of the many reasons why a woman ends up one her own with children, through no fault of her own. Sorry if you thought it inappropriate.

There are so many reasons why women are on their own with dc, I won't judge any single mum because life can be cruel and I may just be in the same boat one day.

As for life insurance, I have no idea and I'm not going to ask her because it's none of my business to be honest. I only know she will be claiming benefits because she's had to quit her job as she can't afford childcare on her own wage. She has no idea where or how to find out what she can possibly claim and was asking me if I knew. I don't think she's irresponsible though regardless, life chucked a shitty hand at her and her dc, as it could to any one of us.

I apologise to everyone else on the thread, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned my cousins dh, I was speaking to her not long before reading this thread, so listening to her worry about being judged and then reading judgey comments made me reply without thinking. It's the first time I've been angry at a thread in the years I've been here and it prob would have been a good idea for me to hide thread.

My Dad did have life insurance but only for his wife and her son (he took me off policy when he moved in with her and her son we were children) and they both still need to claim benefits, so could it be possible my cousins Dh a did have something in place but not enough to not require extra help? Like I say I don't know and unless she wants to tell me, I'm not asking her.

I don't think I can debate about lack of life insurance making someone irresponsible objectively right now though so I will bow out. I just think there's a lot of Mums out there doing the best they can with what resources they have and are unfairly judged. It's shit.

I honestly wasn't trying to score points though. Just responded hot-heatedly.

Ukmm

Not everyone is as small minded as some on here either

So very sorry to hear about your cousin's loss of her DH, Ukmm - that's utterly tragic and awful.

Lea re the life insurance, why is it up to the father to ensure he can afford to have dcs?
The mother should also take decisions regarding the wellbeing of her dcs and that might actually be working full time on a wage where she can look after her dcs on her own. Because yes some women are their own because they are divorced and they should get some help from the father. But sometimes it doesnt work like this. They can become a widow. And what then? Why is it only the father responsibility to have a life insurrance?

I fully reject the very patriarchal idea that only men can provide for a family. I really do think that women should start taking the same level of responsibility of the financial wellbeing of the family.
I can't accept that it's ok fur a woman to say 'I'll keep this baby' on the grounds that the father will have to pay, will have the child EOW (so she can have a break, go out and see family) etc.
In RL, within a family setting of two parents, how many people would get a weekend every other weekend fur themselves? How often do you think it happens when the father works away/has very long hours and it's the mother who bears all the responsibility and looking after during the week?

There is also another question there.

You can force a man to be a father, pay maintenance, maybe even see the child. But can you really force them to be a DAD?

The answer WoodHeaven is NO. You cannot. Nor should you. BFF's ex was pretty poisonous to their son (and his children by his first wife) popping in and out of their lives, talking shit about their mothers and how horrible his life was because he had no money (not that he paid support anyway) and how much better his life could be. He finally fucked off when BFF's son was about 10. It would have been better all round if he'd just disappeared (rather like a tomcat) when they were born. All three of his children have been left with deep scars, only one has managed to 'rise above' them, BFF's son.

I wouldn't want any man in my children's lives who didn't truly want to be there.

WoodHeaven There is nothing to prevent the would-be father from using contraception and making sure he is not a would-be father. Or, indeed, from only having penetrative sex in situations where they are both agreed on what they would do about an unplanned pregnancy. He has choices galore.

But as the father of a child, that bloke has rights in relation to the child. Presumably you agree that he should have these, if only for the child's welfare? Then, for the child's welfare, he also has responsibilities. And for the welfare of mothers and children everywhere, men must not be allowed to choose whether or not their child is aborted.

Add up all these factors and men being financially responsible is the only possible outcome that doesn't compromise the welfare of a vulnerable child.

I agree that both parents should have life insurance.

For the child's sake, whichever parent is the primary carer should be entitled to financial assistance, because being a primary carer tends to make having a career more difficult and costs of childcare are so high. Otherwise we will have 'illegitimate' children having lower standards of living than others.

Just to give an update, we are now a week past the gf 'late' date. All has been very very quiet after last weeks drama. DN has sent ex a message asking her to let him know if she comes on or has a positive pt. no reply. So now, another dilemma. Does he contact her again. Does he speak to her parents. ? Normally no, but her behaviour in the hallway was far from 'normal'. If she needs help with MH/pregnancy/lack of pregnancy , he doesn't want to leave her coping on her own. Fearful of becoming more involved.

I would take it that he would hear if there was anything to hear. It sounds highly unlikely there's any news - and even less likely he will get the truth if he inquires.

He should leave it now. If she wants to tell him anything, she will. If there's nothing to tell, then why would she contact him? And if he contacts her again, I can pretty much guarantee that she will see it as a sign that he does lurve her after all, since he cares about her wellbeing, and will become problematic.

No. Absolutely no contact. If she has anything to say she'll get in touch with him, or her parents will on her behalf.

At this point her mental health is no longer his concern. And if she needs time & space to 'get over him', it won't help her to have him messaging her.

He needs to concentrate on his education and let this incident go. Other than that hopefully he's learnt a valuable lesson.

No leave her alone to get over a relationship she thought was going places.

Don't get her hopes up he may still care.

No leave her alone. She's young - many young people are over dramatic - she's probably mortified rather than mentally ill.

I made a right meal of getting over my first love, but honest to God it didn't help that everytime I took myself off he'd be right back in contact but would complain if I then approached him. Leave her be.

I'm pretty sure he would hear immediately if she got a positive pregnancy test. I think leave it for now, rather than confuse the break-up.