Where do you stand on this one...

[Marilynsbigsister]

I'm not going to NC but will be slightly oblique about circumstances as quite identifying . Two very young 20 yr olds in a relationship. Been together 3 months. Male at Uni but lives at home, female working also living at home. The boy has mentioned to his parents (actually his mum mostly) that cracks are starting to appear because she is keen to move on to the next level and is putting the pressure on to get a flat together and 'settle down'. Boy has told her 'definitely not at the moment' his plans include post graduate study abroad for a couple of years . Anyway, the dilemma.. 2 days after the 'settle down' conversation, there was a contraception failure. Condom split, (apparently it was not just a small tear but from top all way to base. ) Boy has been taught from early on that he must be responsible for his own fertility and insisted on condoms as he is adamant he doesn't want children yet although gf is on the pill. Boy is now beside himself with worry, he begged his gf to go with him to get morning after pill. Gf reaction has been to refuse saying that if she gets pregnant against all these odds then it is meant to be . Boy is the sort to do the right thing. Would give up career goals of he had children to support. I know all the ins and outs because mum is close relative. Mum believes gf is manipulating her son into parenthood because this happened literally a couple of days after discussing settling down. What is the right thing to do if she is pregnant. ? Does he give up his plans and support a child he does not wish to have, took precautions to avoid and made his feelings very clear BEFORE conception. Or does he suck it up, leave Uni and get a job to support the child and learn never again have sex with someone he doesn't want to have a child with. ? For my part I have met the gf a few times so not enough to form an opinion except that she is much more mature than her boyfriend. (My relative is livid and truly believes she 'doctored the condoms - which would be impossible - she is too angry to be logical !)
BTW she was due AF on Monday. Apparently there are pts that are accurate to a few days late so all a bit tense in female relatives household at the moment.

I wouldn't trust her. Having been in this position when I was 18 I stressed like mad about it and got straight to the doctors for the morning after pill (I wasn't on the pill). I think she's secretly hoping this will result in a pregnancy. I hope for his sake she isn't pregnant because I think she will keep it if she is. If it turns out she is pregnant he must not give up uni and his dreams. He already had doubts about the relationship and it sounds like their plans for the next few years and very different so I doubt this relationship will last for more than a year or so. If she isn't pregnant he needs to end the relationship because I think this 'accident' will happen again, maybe next time she will 'forget' to take her pill for a few days.

Dani really? I've certainly had the MAP from Boots after condom problems, and I've been on the pill for 25 years - no pharmacist (or doctor in the old days) has refused it.

And I don't think it's fair to call the MAP an "early abortion" Hurr1cane - afaik, it works by stopping the ovum from releasing and stopping fertilisation from taking place: that's not the same as terminating a pregnancy I agree no-one should be forced into taking it - but people also need to be aware that actions have consequences, so if, by refusing to take it, she will end up a single parent, then that is the risk she has to take.

Also agree that he should end the relationship now BEFORE pregnancy is confirmed. (Unless he truly loves her and sees a future with her).

Explain that they want different things and he plans to study, travel etc.

That way, if she is lying and not pregnant it is over cleanly. He has escaped.

If she contrived the contraceptive failure and is pregnant she has a chance to consider whether to continue the pregnancy. At least she knows where she stands.

If it was a genuine accident and she is as shocked as he is then that is very hard for her as well as for him. In these circumstances you would expect her to talk to him adult to adult about the best way to manage bearing in mind the fact they might be splitting up. Discussions on finance, contact, custody etc would have to be had.

She still has choices about how she wants to live however although they are limited if she does not believe in MAP/abortion. He also can choose how he wants to live although he will have to support his child - so they both lose - and both gain in that they have a child.

Aha - the magic of Google: the MAP is not an abortion pill - it doesn't work if you are already pregnant.

www.planb.ca/faq.html

So - as is often presented: it is another form of contraceptive choice.

She doesn't have to put being a mother first though. She's had the option of MAP and she would continue to have the option of abortion. If she doesn't want to be a mother then she wouldn't have to be, and so if he doesn't want to be a father, he shouldn't have to be.

Of course he should stick to his travel plans, this is a situation that is completely different to a married couple who planned children and then got divorced.

I don't think it's so nuts to move in after a few months at that age. I was living with my uni boyfriend early on. We were together most nights anyway.

I did take the map after contraception failure though.

He needs to dump her before there are any more accidents. He clearly doesn't trust her and the relationship is broken.

She is on the pill so there is no reason why she should have taken the MAP.
If she is pregnant, there is no reason why he should give up on his education but he is responsible for the child. Benefits and/or working will get her through the early years, then his education should provide a higher paid job and he can begin to financially support his child properly. There's no benefit to him giving up his education.

Pregnancy is a risk when you have sex. However fair or unfair it is, that's the way it is. Men cannot absolve themselves of responsibility because it isn't about the mother, it's about the child. Men can only use condoms and ensure when they use them, that they are using them correctly to reduce the risk of failure. They cannot force a woman to take the MAP.

He needs to dump her whether the test is positive or negative. Leaving it until after the test only makes it more difficult if it is positive.

They want different things, he was very clear that this was not sex with the intention of producing a baby.

Not every uni course can be done part time either, he should make it clear to her now that he has no intention of changing his career plans as he didn't want a baby.

They cannot force a woman to take the MAP.

Quite right.

However, it seems unfair that the woman can force the man to become a father when he has made it clear he does not want to be one and has taken precautions.

Several pps have said that the boy shouldn't sleep with a woman if he does not intend to have kids - that he should be prepared to suck up the consequences. Yet they would not say that to a woman or castigate a woman for sleeping with someone that she doesn't want kids with.

If she has manipulated him into fatherhood against his wishes then in my view there is nothing more abusive and controlling and no woman would be told to stay with a controlling partner.

I hope for everyone's sake that there is no baby as this does not bode well for anyone, least of all the child.

The sooner a male "pill" contraceptive is available the better.

Sorry - obviously if there is a child the boy must take responsibility - he has a legal obligation to do so. He does not have an obligation to the GF though.

In situations like this, men should be able to legally absolve themselves of any financial responsibility. Women can do it, so men should be able to as well.

I don't agree with this. If a women chooses not to continue with the pregnancy then they have to live with the act of terminating a pregnancy and any residual guilt/feeling of loss. She also does not absolve herself of a living breathing human being who needs to be raised.

It's not the same. I do appreciate that it's not 'fair' as the woman gets the final say, but that's just the way it is because she is the one with a womb and the ability to grow a human. It's not the same and never can be, but that doesn't mean that a man shouldn't have to live with the consequences if the result is a child.

However, it seems unfair that the woman can force the man to become a father when he has made it clear he does not want to be one and has taken precautions.

It's also unfair that where they have BOTH taken precautions that the woman is the one who has to deal with the physical and emotional implications of a termination, or face raising a child alone, when a man will never have to do that, but there you go.

1. If she is pregnant then he does need to support the baby(financially and emotionally) however my advice to him would be to stay at university. This may be the best way to secure the most (financially) for his child long term. Although not guaranteed. That would be my advise to him. I would also be advising him not to move in with her even if she is pregnant.

1. If she isn't pregnant I would be advising him to end the relationship as soon as he found out she wasn't pregnant. She wants to settle down, he knows he doesn't want this yet. It's unfair to keep her hanging on but its also unfair for him to be pressurised into settling down when his clearly not ready to.

For both their sakes I do hope she is not pregnant.

In fact I think he should end the relationship immediately. He doesn't want a long term committed relationship. My point regards any potential DC still stands though.

Exactly Basin

I don't agree with this. If a women chooses not to continue with the pregnancy then they have to live with the act of terminating a pregnancy and any residual guilt/feeling of loss. She also does not absolve herself of a living breathing human being who needs to be raised.

Of course she absolves herself of a living breathing human being who needs to be raised. That's pretty much exactly what having an abortion is. Your post also assumes that there is going to be guilt or a feeling of loss if an abortion takes place, and often, there isn't. Many people have abortions and feel relieved, then go on to barely ever think about it again.

We are talking about a situation where it is known that there was a contraception failure, and the MAP was a perfectly valid option. If she had made the choice to take it, there would be no need for her to face the implications of a termination or single parenthood.

A woman will have more choices in these situations simply because of biology, but that doesn't mean they should have the right to force the consequences of their choices on someone else.

Unfortunately, babies are a consequence of sex. You can try to protect yourself, but it doesn't always work. He cannot just say oh well I was using condoms, not my fault it split so I'm not supporting my child!

I can't believe people are suggesting that

He obviously doesn't trust her. So he should end the relationship, not continue to have sex with her.

I loathe this expectation that a man can absolve himself of all responsibility for a pregnancy by claiming that it's effectively the woman's choice to have a baby because he chose for her to terminate the pregnancy.

Finding yourself pregnant and not feeling able to terminate the pregnancy is a completely different kettle of fish to planning a pregnancy or having a no-so-accidental contraception 'failure'. Unless a bloke has sat down with a girl and received a 'yes' to the questions: 'If you fall pregnant unexpectedly, will you terminate the pregnancy?' he should assume that if she falls pregnant (regardless of what contraception he has used or not used), he will become a father if she makes a choice that is ultimately only hers to make. And even if he's taking the trouble to have that conversation, he should still be prepared for her to feel differently when she's actually in the situation. That's the risk he should be willing to take - and that's the way the law sees it.

No woman should feel obliged to take the MAP and no man should expect to have his responsibilities conveniently removed in such a way. For women who have a crisis of conscience about taking it (and I would be one of them), it is not at option. Therefore, since it is not an option, going ahead with the pregnancy is the only option remaining - a consequence that both parties presumably always knew could happen. There are plenty of people in the world; men who would want an abortion are quite at liberty to choose sexual partners who feel the same way. They are not at liberty to impose their personal inclinations on someone else's body - and if that means that in nine months there is a baby with their DNA for whom they will be financially responsible - well, them's the risks.

Doting mothers are far too quick to assume their son has been 'caught' by a sly female. It's a very convenient assumption to make and, at least in my experience, not the most likely scenario.

It isn't fair that there's nothing else he can do to prevent a pregnancy but unfortunately that's just biology. I don't think the father should be able to legally remove himself. That way madness lies.

I feel terribly sorry for the boy in this situation. I wouldn't trust this gf to have been taking the pill properly. She sounds crazy. I would say the relationship is over right now and he should dump her. He doesn't have to stay with her just because she may be pg. She still has choices - and so should he.

I don't like the fact that he might be financially on the hook for the foreseeable future. It's unfair since he doesn't get to choose the outcome - but that's one of the few areas of our society that works out to men's detriment rather than women's detriment.

Agree with male pill for this reason. I'll be encouraging DS to go that route if feasible by the time he's old enough. It's almost more important for DS than it is for DD tbh.

I too think he should dump her before the result is known. That way she will be under no illusion about their future and it may make her realise that she is being manipulative and also may make her consider a termination which would be the right thing to do in my view. This is an advert for the extra thick 'Dreadnought' condoms made of recycled tractor inner tubes and no mistake

Unfortunately, babies are a consequence of sex. You can try to protect yourself, but it doesn't always work. He cannot just say oh well I was using condoms, not my fault it split so I'm not supporting my child!

Why not?

Women are allowed to, so why shouldn't men be allowed to do the same?

If it weren't for the fact that women can get free morning after pills and abortions, then I'd agree with you. But as women can say 'not my fault it split so I'm not supporting my child', then men should be able to do the same.