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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Where do you stand on this one...

419 replies

Marilynsbigsister · 15/12/2015 17:13

I'm not going to NC but will be slightly oblique about circumstances as quite identifying . Two very young 20 yr olds in a relationship. Been together 3 months. Male at Uni but lives at home, female working also living at home. The boy has mentioned to his parents (actually his mum mostly) that cracks are starting to appear because she is keen to move on to the next level and is putting the pressure on to get a flat together and 'settle down'. Boy has told her 'definitely not at the moment' his plans include post graduate study abroad for a couple of years . Anyway, the dilemma.. 2 days after the 'settle down' conversation, there was a contraception failure. Condom split, (apparently it was not just a small tear but from top all way to base. ) Boy has been taught from early on that he must be responsible for his own fertility and insisted on condoms as he is adamant he doesn't want children yet although gf is on the pill. Boy is now beside himself with worry, he begged his gf to go with him to get morning after pill. Gf reaction has been to refuse saying that if she gets pregnant against all these odds then it is meant to be . Boy is the sort to do the right thing. Would give up career goals of he had children to support. I know all the ins and outs because mum is close relative. Mum believes gf is manipulating her son into parenthood because this happened literally a couple of days after discussing settling down. What is the right thing to do if she is pregnant. ? Does he give up his plans and support a child he does not wish to have, took precautions to avoid and made his feelings very clear BEFORE conception. Or does he suck it up, leave Uni and get a job to support the child and learn never again have sex with someone he doesn't want to have a child with. ? For my part I have met the gf a few times so not enough to form an opinion except that she is much more mature than her boyfriend. (My relative is livid and truly believes she 'doctored the condoms - which would be impossible - she is too angry to be logical !)
BTW she was due AF on Monday. Apparently there are pts that are accurate to a few days late so all a bit tense in female relatives household at the moment.

OP posts:
WoodHeaven · 16/12/2015 12:59

Agree Mousse. We need a contraceptive pill for men.

PrincessMouse · 16/12/2015 13:01

Now we have a generation of young men who are stuck between the chauvinistic ideals of every previous generation of men and the reality of the situation that until some invents reliable reversable male contraception they have the same level of control of their fertility as their great granmothers - ie don't have sex if you don't want a baby. I don't envy them.

This has to be the most intelligent and thought provoking post on this thread.

Maryz · 16/12/2015 13:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PrincessMouse · 16/12/2015 13:03

Wood. It's the only answer to it. We can then all have a choice with regards who we have DC with.....

Pyjamaramadrama · 16/12/2015 13:07

I think men still have a choice.

I wonder how many pregnancies have occurred when a condom has been used properly and kept safely on the mans person.

Maryz · 16/12/2015 13:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MySordidCakeSecret · 16/12/2015 13:14

but by the same token I feel there is nothing more heinous (short of murder, torture etc.) than forcing a man into parenthood if he has expressed a desire to not become a father.

WTF?!! You conjure up this strange image of poor men being jorced to ejaculate inside women, how heinous that pregnancy may result after the poor man didn't want children Hmm

MySordidCakeSecret · 16/12/2015 13:16

and whatever happened to that new male contraceptive that was detailed a while back... something to do with a laser beam to the testicles? I'd volunteer to administrate that Smile

AskingForAPal · 16/12/2015 13:21

Am I the only one not worshipping this thought process?

Now we have a generation of young men who are stuck between the chauvinistic ideals of every previous generation of men and the reality of the situation that until someone invents reliable reversable male contraception they have the same level of control of their fertility as their great grandmothers - ie don't have sex if you don't want a baby. I don't envy them

Surely they have (by this argument) the same level of control of their fertility as their great grandfathers - i.e. they can have sex but the woman may or may not end up having their baby? Why compare them to their great grandmothers, except to make it sound more sympathetic?

Actually of course, today's men are much better off than their great grandfathers, because not only are condoms freely available, but their sexual partners have access to a wide range of birth control. The vast majority of couples agree on the form(s) of contraception they will use, and the men benefit just as much as the women from the consequent lack of annual children. Additionally, abortion is an option in the UK and many women, finding themselves accidentally pregnant, will take up this option. So there is far, far less chance of any act of sex resulting in a child than there was 80 years ago. Men have hugely benefited from this change as well as women, surely that should be obvious.

So just because men still don't have complete control over the random elements of conception, and don't (thank fuck) get to decide for a woman whether she aborts their child or not, I don't think we should be weeping and wailing that men have been left in the dark ages.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 16/12/2015 13:22

yes i can remember it being discussed when i was a teenager

this is from the NHS website

The goal of hormonal contraception research is to find a way of temporarily blocking the effects of testosterone so testicles stop producing healthy sperm cells. However, this needs to be achieved without lowering testosterone levels to such an extent that it triggers side effects, such as a loss of sexual desire

yes there are other side effects of low testosterone though they are not mentioned Hmm. yet many women have suffered terribly from the side effects of the pill but that was ok to market to millions and millions of women

today i have been reminded we have so far to go with equality i read a thread like this the attitudes being passed on to young boys is so disappointing the research that comes up to favour men then the depressing news of the i fell on to her and my penis slipped into her vagina case

PrincessMouse · 16/12/2015 13:23

Maryz. I will have a look at the link when I get a chance. I remember some news articles on the male contraceptive pill a few years back but nothing since. It's not really something I have ever considered in depth purely because I never had to. As a woman I have access to so many effective contraceptive methods. It really is a shame men don't have a similar choice.

Choughed · 16/12/2015 13:25

What a weird thread. It seems on or other of them has to be the villain of the piece, fruitcake, manipulative girl or exploitative, callous, entitled boy,

Mumsnet seems to be getting worse and worse for people inferring all sorts from scant information in the OP, inferences which get more and more hysterical. I would venture that this story isn't that rare, young people, early into a relationship, have a pregnancy scare and don't deal with it very well. I've been there! Smile

I've met men who have skipped out on their children, women who have faked pregnancy or who have pretended to be on the pill in order to get pregnant (first hand stories, not told through their male victims) and just normal people who didn't sit down and calculate all the possible outcomes every time they had a shag.

Choughed · 16/12/2015 13:26

*on = one

PrincessMouse · 16/12/2015 13:34

Munsnet seems to be getting worse and worse for people inferring all sorts from scant information in the OP, inferences which get more and more hysterical. I would venture that this story isn't that rare, young people, early into a relationship, have a pregnancy scare and don't deal with it very well. I've been there!

It's MN Cloughed. can you imagine what would happen if people took the Op at face value? Grin

Choughed · 16/12/2015 13:37

I know Princess, what would I have to read in my lunch break then. But does each and every thread have to be a men v women battleground. It is Christmas after all? Wink

Unfairestofthemall · 16/12/2015 13:37

The male pill was tested but it was decided the side effects were unfair to force upon men. These side effects being bloating, water retention, cramps etc etc. basically PMT.

DianaTrent · 16/12/2015 13:41

I always wonder, when people say they believe that it is unfair that it is a woman's decision what to do next in the event of contraceptive failure, so the men should be given a say, whether their preference is that a man is granted the right to 1) Force her to have an abortion if he doesn't want a baby but not the right to prevent her having one if she doesn't want a baby. 2) Force her to give birth if he wants the baby but she doesn't, or just good old option 3) Make the decision for her either way. There's no compromise, that's not exactly fair but that's just biology. Men have the choice to use a good quality condom with spermicide, and in the context of a relationship to avoid sex within the most likely fertile window. Following that gives them pretty good odds of avoiding fatherhood if that is what they want. Perhaps some day there will be a way for them to have control enough over their own bodies to make their odds as good as women's are now, but I wouldn't like to live in a world where they gain better odds of their reproduction through more control over someone else's body.

scarlets · 16/12/2015 13:46

He obviously isn't as keen on settling down as she is. They want different things. Fair enough. Neither is wrong, they're just not in agreement.

He needs to cut her loose, so that she can meet someone with the same aim. It's the fair thing to do. It's also self-preservation - she'll be knocked up in no time given half a chance, best it's with someone else!.

PrincessMouse · 16/12/2015 14:16

Cloughed enough with your logic, you are derailing the thread.... And take your merry spirit over to NetMums. Grin Wink

Pyjamaramadrama · 16/12/2015 14:46

I totally agree pal men are no worse off than they have ever been.

SettlinginNicely · 16/12/2015 15:00

Agree PrincessMouse.

VestalVirgin · 16/12/2015 15:11

Where are you getting that the MAP would put her in a "substantial amount of pain"?? I've taken it a couple of times and it's been completely unnoticeable!

Well, I have had my menstruation a couple of times and it has been completely unnoticeable except for the blood.

You do realize people have different bodies, yes?

hefzi · 16/12/2015 15:18

Maryz I think weren't there also questions over whether men would bother to take it properly, especially if there were uncomfortable side effects for them, given that they wouldn't be the ones actually pregnant if they didn't?

VestalVirgin · 16/12/2015 15:24

hefzi I believe they stopped research on it because they thought it wouldn't sell - men would just not want to risk the side effects (which also appeared in the placebo group ...). So the concern was not men not taking it properly, more men not taking it at all. (After all, to not take it properly, the men would have to buy it, too, so producing it would still make profit.)

SettlinginNicely · 16/12/2015 15:59

Why be arsed to take hormonal contraception if you can force the woman to do it for you?