Where do you stand on this one...

[Marilynsbigsister]

I'm not going to NC but will be slightly oblique about circumstances as quite identifying . Two very young 20 yr olds in a relationship. Been together 3 months. Male at Uni but lives at home, female working also living at home. The boy has mentioned to his parents (actually his mum mostly) that cracks are starting to appear because she is keen to move on to the next level and is putting the pressure on to get a flat together and 'settle down'. Boy has told her 'definitely not at the moment' his plans include post graduate study abroad for a couple of years . Anyway, the dilemma.. 2 days after the 'settle down' conversation, there was a contraception failure. Condom split, (apparently it was not just a small tear but from top all way to base. ) Boy has been taught from early on that he must be responsible for his own fertility and insisted on condoms as he is adamant he doesn't want children yet although gf is on the pill. Boy is now beside himself with worry, he begged his gf to go with him to get morning after pill. Gf reaction has been to refuse saying that if she gets pregnant against all these odds then it is meant to be . Boy is the sort to do the right thing. Would give up career goals of he had children to support. I know all the ins and outs because mum is close relative. Mum believes gf is manipulating her son into parenthood because this happened literally a couple of days after discussing settling down. What is the right thing to do if she is pregnant. ? Does he give up his plans and support a child he does not wish to have, took precautions to avoid and made his feelings very clear BEFORE conception. Or does he suck it up, leave Uni and get a job to support the child and learn never again have sex with someone he doesn't want to have a child with. ? For my part I have met the gf a few times so not enough to form an opinion except that she is much more mature than her boyfriend. (My relative is livid and truly believes she 'doctored the condoms - which would be impossible - she is too angry to be logical !)
BTW she was due AF on Monday. Apparently there are pts that are accurate to a few days late so all a bit tense in female relatives household at the moment.

That still doesn't make it OK. People with good qualifications have good work/study options. A decent parent would prioritise their DC over the opportunity to pursue a specific phd on another continent, when that would mean hardly any role in their DC's life. You'd hardly ever get a young mother doing something like that: not OK for young fathers either.

All this is totally hypothetical! Probably there will be no pregnancy and it's clear the relationship is over.

But if it was a young mother she would probably have the option of taking the baby with her. People do make situations like that work. Some have little choice, for example if the father is in the forces. It's not ideal, but cooperative parents could make it work with lots of Skyping, Dad visiting the UK for extended periods and spending intensive amounts of time with the child then. But yes, you're right, she's not pregnant anyway.

Rubbish booyaka. A young UK mother wouldn't have the option to go study in the US with a baby or toddler unless she had lots and lots of cash! And it'd still be very hard.

Living abroad and Skype wouldn't be co operative or parenting, for tiny DC. Not great that OP seems to think it would be OK. Because his education/career is sooooo important that this hussy and the inconvenience of a baby mustn't change his plans at all.

All very 1952. Men should be better than that.

Vestal - of course people have different bodies and respond differently to their periods/OCP/MAP whatever - BUT it was the assertion that it WOULD put her in a substantial amount of pain that I was taking issue with. It MIGHT have, I suppose, like anything MIGHT have side effects; but since I have taken it and NOT experienced substantial amounts of pain it's fair to say there is a possibility that other people would also NOT experience substantial amounts of pain, don't you think?

Also, pain from pregnancy & birth a tad more significant than any potential pain from a MAP

I think his doing the right thing completing his education. It's the best route for his "possible" but very unlikely DC to have the most secure financial future. To do this he may well have to sacrifice the first few years of his DC life.

If his going to be a deadbeat dad, he will regardless of his education.

It's also a good idea that his ex-gf realising now that the rose tinted glasses she was wearing need to come off. He doesn't want to settle down with her and rightly or wrongly she will be raising DC in her own. He won't be changing his mind and moving in with her to play happy families.

Regardless all this is theoretical because it's highly unlikely she's pregnant.

He doesn't want to settle down with her and rightly or wrongly she will be raising DC in her own.

You seriously think that is okay?

He is 50% responsible for the (unlikely) resulting child.

Fine to explain he won't be in a relationship with her, his relationship will only be with the child. But if he wants to opt out of the first few years of the (unlikely) child's life to study abroad, then his parents will need to step in and pay his half of the costs, and his half of the childcare.

You CANNOT just allow someone to absolve themselves of their responsibility to a child!

I actually can't believe that I have had to write these words this forum. Jesus Fucking Christ.

Did you miss the wrongly part? Or are you reading what you want to read?

And at what point did I say he shouldn't pay? Or maybe that's an assumption you decided to make on your own?

Dixie really? That's amusing and utterly ridiculous

I also have utter contempt for women

That one sentence pretty much sums up all the gumpf you've posted on this thread Lea. You could have saved yourself all the typing and just posted that.

hownotto, wrong. I have utmost respect for women who reproduce responsibly, or who don't reproduce at all. Zero respect for those who produce kids they cannot afford to rear, by multiple sires in casual or no relationships, and bring those poor children into chaotic, disadvantaged, unloving and often abusive homes.

Women need to be far more discriminating in whom they choose to father their children.

Controversial, but I do agree with Lea. I know it's not the "done" viewpoint on MN, but I'm absolutely astonished when women post in Relationships about their dick of a DP who (dripfeed!) has been a dick for the last 5 years, but they have 2 children, a 1yo and a 3yo. It happens so often on MN that I'm starting to get paranoid that my lovely amazing DH who I've been with for 9 years will suddenly turn into a raging asshole.

However, it does seem to me that DN has behaved appallingly in this situation.

And the men? They are innocent parties in all of this?

You have insulted women on this thread as bitter and prune-faced, LeaLeander. It's hard not to discount everything you say since you think ageist as well as misogynist insults a fine, so yes, you do have contempt for women.

Oh sorry I forgot men are innocent victims of manipulative women and have no reproductive choice.

Oh won't somebody think of the poor disadvantaged men

Those criticizing me are being disingenuous.

Of course men should reproduce responsibly. But it helps to live in the world as it is, not a magical land of "should." The way things are now in reality world, as a woman I hold 100 percent of the control over whether or not I produce a child, and certainly 100 percent of the control over whose sperm I accept. With greater control goes greater accountability.

There are plenty of men out there who are irresponsible jerks, but why breed with them? Bringing a child into a dismal, disadvantaged or abusive environment because one is weak and needy and falls into relationships with horrible men is just reprehensible.

As I said before, the signs of loserhood are almost always available if one keeps one's eyes open. I would bet my life savings that in all the tales of woe posted on here, in 80-plus percent of them the friends and family of the "woman done wrong" spotted the guy as a loser/user/abandoner long before the conception of the children, and she just wouldn't listen.

Women need to be far pickier about who fathers their offspring.

I'm afraid it's not nearly as simplistic as that on so many levels but you clearly live in an idealistic bubble but you showed who you were when you described people as prune faced man haters.

Rape, forced marriage, culture where divorce is deemed as failure, women trapped in financially abusive situations, a culture where marriage is worn like a badge of honour, the stereotypical roles we put girls in right from an early age, the fact that most domestic violence starts during pregnancy, but yes it's all women's fault and they hold all the cards.

Also instead of blaming women for shacking up with a wrong un, perhaps we could start to teach better behaviour and higher standards from men.

Why is a man a shit if he wants not to have the baby but a woman is not judged on the choice either way?

As long as he puts no pressure on the woman to make her choice then surely he is allowed his own opinion of whether he wants to be a father just as the woman can choose - only difference is that the woman actually holds the power of choice.

He should definitely continue his studies as should she, the state will fund them until he is earning, it is clear he intends to earn in future so will pay taxes/support the child. It is very sad for the child that the father will be largely absent from his early years but this is an unfortunate consequence of the freedom and choices we now all have to have sex when and with whom we please. It will never be a perfect situation.

Pyjama, And what do you think will have faster results in terms of reducing the population if mistreated, disadvantaged children growing up in chaotic, miserable, emotionally damaging homes?

I prefer to deal in reality and the reality is that women are in control of whose children they bear, short of extreme kidnap/abuse situations. And that is not the case in most of the tales of woe presented here and on other discussion fora.

"I'm 30 and have four DC by three different men. The first DC was from a short-term relationship in my teens; he has never acknowledged it is his. The second two age 3 and 4 from OH I was together with 10 years, he had a drinking problem since he was 15 and we finally had to leave. The last DC is 6 months; the father has no job and sleeps here or at his mum's but he was nice to me when I was down so I fell pregnant I decided to go ahead and have his child. He is a good man and wants to go back to Uni one of these days but for the moment spends all day playing computer games. He won't get up and do the night feeds or really interact with his child; I am hoping it gets better when the baby is older. Meanwhile I am worried what will happen when the benefit cuts kick in because with 4 DC I am too busy to work and OH won't provide child care."

Who was in control of the production of those children? There are legions of women telling such stories as though they are hapless victims of fate. When in reality they are selfish weaklings who never gave a thought to the conditions they were about to launch another human being into, nor a thought for the society that will be stuck picking up the inevitable pieces.

I agree that our perceptions of men and women in these situations aren't simplistic. Our inherent expectations of how people will behave in these type of situation are IMO definitely driven by our RL experiences from childhood into adulthood.

Outside of an evil dick of a stepfather who my mother had the courage to leave I have been fortunate that majority of the men I know (brother, friends ect) have continued to look after their DC and provide for them. My brother left the house and continues to pay the mortgage and gives ex sil maintenance. He does it because he wants the best for his DDs (18 & 10) and he wants them to remain in their childhood home.

So my perception is based on that. I don't automatically assume fathers will be deadbeats. I reserve my judgement until the start behaving like deadbeats.

I also don't assume women are manipulative. I reserve judgment until the start behaving that way.

IMO this guy is been judged to be a dead beat and as far as we know based on her pos she's not pregnant. His not a father and doesn't look like he will be a father. Wanting to do the best you can so you can provide a better future for your DC shouldn't be sneered at IMO. That's what I think he would be doing by continuing his studies.