HELP..... no help from parents!

[pinky77]

Hi all, I am writing to find out other peoples take on this situation. I am a mother of 3 kids under 5 with the view to returning to my work. I am going to have to pay £1000 a month for my kids to go to nursery. My sister also has 3 children and for 8 yrs my mother has minded these whilst my sister worked.
I am upset because I feel my sister has had this help and it should be my turn or at least shared. Also she has a higher salary and a husband that works less awkward shifts and a MIL that also helps. We are younger with less income and this expense is making it really difficult. My mum says she wishes she had more hands to help out but there is no talk of helping me instead. It's not just the work situation my kids also don't get any quality time with the grandparents as the others are looked after from 7 in morning then after school until 7 again 4 days week.
I have no inlaws or other family members available to help. My mum minds the odd time for a parents meeting at school or doctors appointment and will pick up one from nursery 3 days week but doesn't see them other than those times. I feel there are big differences being made and it is making life quiet tough but I haven't said too much to avoid any family rifts we have just been sucking it up and managing through. Any advice or opinions appreciated thanks

Boho Counting your blessings that you're not in my family.

Personally I would be thrilled and honoured to look after grandchildren (not that I've got any and my son's only 17!). But I'm an older mum who, up until I was 40, did pretty much what I liked.

I think it must feel very different if you've had your children younger (as the op's mum presumably did) and then gone straight into caring for grandchildren with barely a break. Before you know it, you're 60 and you've spent most of your adult life as a carer. I don't blame women if they start thinking, 'Hey what about me?'

Floisme - I am an older mum too but I completely disagree with you, I will be over 60 when my DS is 18 and am looking forward to getting on with my own life - I certainly don't expect to be doing childcare for any grandchildren in my 70s+ (bar helping out in emergencies).

As I said earlier, I have quite a few friends who are grandparents who feel they are completely taken for granted by their grown up children as unpaid childminder - it really is quite shocking.

Quite a few friends who went back to work found that their parents were sad, because they would miss the dgc and would only see them the odd weekend. So they did a day of childcare and had a fun time once a week, whilst the dgc went to nursery took them the rest of the week, until the dgc started school.

This seems fine to me as it is flexible and everyone gains something.

But providing wrap around child care to one set of grand children through school as well cuts out so many other things and causes so many other problems. One of which is that if one of the GPs is ill, then there is no back-up, because they are the back-up as well.

Ragwort I wasn't suggesting that everyone should feel like I do. In any case, if I do ever have grandchildren myself, I will be a mother in law so won't even be allowed to bake them a cake except by special appointment.

You're right that some grandmothers are incredibly put upon by their supposedly grown up children. And yes it is shocking.

I also think it's a bit depressing that (judging from her first post) both the op's parents are around and yet this entire thread has been about whether or not her mum should be doing more. It makes me think back to the 70s and 80s and wonder why I bothered.

I do think it's more about the relationship, feeling pushed out.
Mine help out occasionally, but it's more to facilitate the relationship between them rather than for any monetary value.

Thing is op, your children will realise when they get older, I don't explain it away anymore.

I used to work in childcare. IME there are very very few 60 year olds who work with under fives, and who are still capable of doing the job. It is a physical and tiring job if you do it properly.

Hey everyone, just thought I would update. So the whole thing was playing on my mind so I asked mum up for cup of tea this morning after she dropped sisters kids to school. I didn't want any confrontation or for it to be a big thing so I just gently steered it towards that topic mainly cos I just want to understand her intentions more. Is it downright favouritism? does she feel pushed etc.
So I could see she was very uncomfortable around the area so obviously it had be weighting on her mind. Neway boils down to a few different matters. One she said my sister had never offered any alternative arrangements such as less hours of after school clubs after so long. Secondly she said she truly enjoys it, if feeling a little pushed at times but couldn't face the prospect of my sisters mother in law now that shes retired stepping into her shoes and developed as good a relationship with the GC. I pointed out how her trying competitively to be the best granny to one set she was missing out on being much of a granny to another set at all. To which she replied she certaintly didn't love mine any less and that a glimpse or 2 for 5 mins or so a week at mine was enough as she knows how well we look after the kids. Then she said that me and my husband work so well as a team whereas my sister and her hubby don't so its very difficult for them.
I explained how yes we work together but that it wasn't as easy as she might think it is often so much sacrificing on our part and rearranging with work etc. And that as much as a parent is to sacrifice it is hard to watch that a sibling doesn't have to do that to any extent at all. She said but you enjoy at home with your kids so much. To which I replied yes I do but unfortunately life doesn't afford me to do so indefinitely and that I just felt I can provide them as much as we can as a parent but not the role of a grandparent. It kinda ended with her saying she was in a rush to get some shopping in and that she would love to help everyone but her "hands were tied".
She left and to be honest I just burst into tears because maybe I didnt hear what I wanted to hear but also how it just kinda got brushed under the carpet and I now realise it is how it is nothing will change.
I've read everyones comments and I get ppl think I'm being spoilt or feel a sense of entitlement but I don't I just feel suffocated by a situation and like I just want space from them all and not to be doing all the things they ask me to do. Like mum wants me to teach her how to email etc my sis works in computers but its still me she'l ask. My husband will fix mums car or hang her new curtains never my sis hubby. Why do you always give and do but never get back like the others? I don't want to become like that but I am arghhhh !!!!

You sound like your really bothered by everything!

Your mums asks you to help her to email and you still find a moan about your sister. Why can't you just help her to email? Why does it have to be about someone else?

Why can't your husband do the curtains without thinking it should be her husband?!

I think you would find life a bit easier if you just got on with things. Like just pay the childcare and forget how unfair you think it is that your mums helps your sister!

Just asking - what answer did you want to hear this morning? That she would drop your sister and help you or that is would overwork herself by trying to please both of you?

Well, the only option now to you is to make yourself happy. If your mum won't be the granny you feel your children deserve, then perhaps you needn't be the daughter she thinks she deserves. Perhaps next time she asks for something you can turn her words on her: "I'd/DH'd love to help you mum but DH and/or I have our hands tied up with the children now, you know, so much do to on our own we haven't a spare minute. Perhaps you should ask DSis next time she drops her DC off with you".

You know now that you're going to have to change your expectations of your mother. Perhaps it's time to change her expectations of you? If you continue on as you have you're going to build up even more resentment and bitterness. The only way to stop from doing that is to stop the thing(s) that are causing it.

So you don't feel you should anything for your mum because she looks after your sisters children and not yours?

Honestly OP either do things for her because you have time or want to. Not because you want something back.

I worked ft mum helped with my first but not my second. She helps dbro and his wife far more than she helped me despite sil being a sahm . At least once a day she or my dad are asked to go up and help with something

However sil and dbro are very critical of her and only contact her when he wants something.

She would ask me for a favour before them and I don't mind. She does what she does for dbro and sil, because every time she says no it's a huge drama and she knows they aren't above stopping her seeing the kids.

I, personally, know that would last than a week because they are totally dependent on mum and dad. If one of them has a doctors appointment mim or dad has to have the kids so they can go together. Even though both drive. I am not talking appointments where one of them is really ill and can't drive. Just general 'I have a cold' type things.

Or a few weeks ago they called mum as the oldest was sick. There ended up being 4 adults looking after 2 kids. Because dbro and sils first reaction is to call mum and dad.

But I am the one mum and dad have a better relationship with. The relationship with dbro and sil is very precarious and mum has started standing up to them a bit.

I am happy with it the way it is because my mum and dad respect me for being independent. I enjoy helping them out and enjoy the better relationship.

Thanks imthechristmascarcass that's probably the most sensible advice I think that's what I will do. I still want to help my mum of course I love her but unimaginativename the reason I'm annoyed is because its very difficult when your already pushed to do these things yet my sister will actually just say ask me to do it. You know it doesn't sit in me comfortably to just say downright no mum but I might perhaps say "Yes when I get an hour free but really busy at the minute maybe u cud ask my sister if u need it a little quicker" Because at the end of the day if my mum can say no sorry I cant mind your kids while you go sit your exams I'm having nephews for tea well then I kinda got to be more ascertive myself.
Unimaginativename what I wanted to hear I suppose was I couldn't possibly do the childcare for you (reasonable enough) but I want to see your kids a little more etc so i'm going to ask your sister if one day she could make alternative arrangements. Personally theres not a chance if the shoe was on the other foot I would see my mum in that situation I would be saying thanks for all the help mum but instead of you doing 2 hrs in morning with kids before school ill put them in breakfast club etc make things a little easier for her that way if she enjoys them so much she can have them in the afternoon but not to that extent?! AIBU?

"I explained how yes we work together but that it wasn't as easy as she might think it is often so much sacrificing on our part and rearranging with work etc."

You said that to your mother? you said that to someone who has been there, done that and got the T-shirt and is now helping to raise the next generation? You really cant see past the end of your own nose can you? Like teaching granny to suck eggs. Your mum must have the patience of a saint not to have laughed herself right out of her seat when you said that.

Reminds me of my (married, both spouses working) friend last week complaining that she would have to pay £40 a week for her SIL to care for her son when she returned to work. "Its so expensive, you've no idea!"
Nah, i dont. None at all. I've only raised two on my own and paid 5 times that a week for their childcare.

Feel free to tell me I'm talking out of my arse but it sounds as if you and your mum are quite similar in that you both like to help out but you both also find it hard to say 'no' and end up running yourselves into the ground and pleasing no-one?.

Your relationship with your sister sounds like the real issue here. I honestly don't think you can do much more about the childcare (and like I've already said, I'm on your mum's side there anyway). But maybe you can step back in other ways e.g. tell them this is the last time you'll be hosting Christmas?

So basically you will now say to your mum your too busy with childcare to help her. That is the most childish thing ever. Like I'm not helping you because your not helping me.

Maybe you get asked to help to email because you are a SAHM so your sister would suggest that as she works full time maybe????

Yanbu. There is fair and equal, what you describe us neither.

I find it deeply hurtful that my dp's don't want to have a relationship with my DS. They look after dn&ns and take them on holiday. Ds is such a lovely little boy and is no trouble, there really us no excuse for playing fsvourites.

I had an epiphany last year. When DS brought his work home at the end of the last school year, he had drawn a family tree and marked my dps as dead. For my own sanity really stepped back from offering assistance and feel so much better for it. It's not about being childish or tit for that, I'm hurt and need to back off.

RUDEELF you see to pick and choose what you'd like to read. What I was explaining to my Mum was that it may look like myself and husband have it all figured out but its been tricky.... you know swans on the surface n all that. as there seems no point in not explaining to my Mum that this is the case and then complaining. Also you keep saying about SAHM like I'm sitting around I'm an accountant and do a lot of work from home still as I mentioned in other posts. So actually I am busy late into the evening most nights. My mum was a stay at home mum with two kids with to sets of inlaws that had us both a lot so perhaps she isn't aware of the difficulties.

I think being more assertive as carcass said is the way forward. It will give you more time without doing extra stuff.

People expect things of you and put you in a slot. Like the comment from my own DM oh "head, you don't mind do you ...whatever? " Was only when I started saying oh I can't do that, sorry that's just too much for me, I was asked less and people Presumed less.

I'd pick my own child up from nursery from now on, and then try and arrange a proper quality time with GP now and again.

Perhaps it's time to let her miss your children.

Oh top tip. Don't pretend things are going well. Don't smooth things over.

Thanks headofthehive55 think your right. It starts as a monetary childcare thing but its brought up many other issues. I was tempted to just smooth it over and continue on but I've done that in the past and just don't feel able to anymore. I've said my piece and heard what my mums feelings are on the topic. Mum was picking up my child because the school collection times coincided etc but I can think of an arrangement around this. I had suggested this in the past but my mum was adamant she would do this cos she could see all the kids for 5 mins. It kinda give her a quick fix whereas if this is in place she might have to make an effort to have quality 1/2 hr once a week or something and I do invite for dinners, parties etc it most certainly isn't one sided and my dad is on the scene but he isn't much help or hands on just not one of those modern men!lol Anyway it is what it is also despite what it seems I get on great with my sis this is the only issue and has ever been. we just seem very different in our choices of raising a family and expectations etc Also I think I'm prob just too like my Mum trying to do it all, just like many of us out there.

Have you thought of saying something to your sister?
You get on well enough, it shouldn't be that hard surely.
"Sis, have you thought of putting the kids into breakfast club so someone else can have a little of Mums time?"
"kids miss Gran, they only see her 5 minutes and need more time with her, but she's only able to watch your guys"
Hell it can't be worse can it.
Very unfair that she monopolizes your Mum like that.

I completely understand how much it hurts as it's similar to the dynamic with my in-laws.

Basically keeping one adult child happy is more important than having a relationship will all your grandchildren. It hurts when your sibling is considered more important time and time again than your own children - I think it's human nature.

Even when we were on our knees and on the verge of splitting and asked for minimal help with the DCs none was forthcoming yet the DNs had lots of childcare demanded for and provided.

Pinky hopefully your Mum will think it through and decide to make changes

SquinkiesRule yes I know you have a valid point. However several times I have broached the subject she has says awk sure you love all that baking malarkey n nappies stay at home. She quiet dismissive, the majority of the family say why bother going back to work sure you enjoy it. That's what pisses me off because we have made the decision that I'm going back to a role in the practice I was at before as I have to think of the future. Just like my sister I will have 3 childrens tuition fees, house deposits, Weddings etc to think of. We live cpomfortably enough at the minute but not enough to provide everything in the future so I do have to work plus putting my career more or less on hold for 5 yrs has been long enough. She a good sister but she is totally aware what a hassle other means of childcare would be for her with the cost and inflexibility and isn't for one going to suggest any change. Me intervening would rock the boat and she could throw the head up meaning Mum potentially mightn't see the kids that I wouldn't risk!!

I think parents on the whole treat their own children quite differently to one another. Some of it is circumstance eg a parent is at home with one child for a few years but not with another as they've gone back to work at that point etc etc etc. There really are a million different permutations of this. Some of it is roles and family dynamics eg one child is seen as capable and independent, the other as needy and requiring help. These roles are fairly constantly reinforced throughout childhood and beyond - one child is more independent because they have learned to be and parents treat them as such, etc etc etc.

These children grow up but their roles are still pretty much the same. They then have children of their own. Grandparents then treat their grandchildren according to circumstance eg one adult child lives round corner so they see those grandchildren a lot more, one adult child has children first so they establish a pattern with them before other grandchildren come on scene.

The adult child's role continues too - they were the capable child and now the capable parent, they were the needy child and now the needy parent. And so on and so forth.

Mostly things sound positive in your extended family but where they are not, you can tell them how you feel but you can't actually get people to change. I always bleat on about this but you simply cannot change other people. You can't get your mum to change the childcare because in her eyes she is doing the right thing. You have no power really over what happens between your mum and your sister and her children. Though I know in your eyes she is doing the wrong thing.

However, you can change your own behaviour, specifically how you relate with your mum and sister individually. Eg don't offer your mum help to the point you feel resentful. Don't host Christmas multiple times in a row. Don't give your sister opportunities to show her selfishness to you.

I think if you could change your own behaviour with your sister you would
less resentful. I think your sister is at the real target of your strong feelings rather than your mum tbh.

The relationship between your mum and sister and her children, well its not your issue. Nor should you try to facilitate it. It's between them.

Unfortunately people do slot you in the earth mother role, and decide you are just "loving it". Because then they feel it's all ok. Boat not rocked. People also assume that you are ok financially because well you are managing aren't you...it's presumptuous. Nobody would say oh you are on holiday, see you don't need to work do you, you are managing fine aren't you...

Oh my hands are tied is usually code for please shut up don't make it difficult for me. Usually the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

From now on you need to change her mindset of you. Do not revel in your sahm role, just mention work. Career. "Oh no I haven't had time to do anything with them, you see I have this project on at work. ", oh yes so an so has got an assembly...I can't go I don't think, I have this project on, oh it's so interesting, I'm looking for promotion, and...etc..."

Coffee? Well no, I need a conference call...etc.