HELP..... no help from parents!

[pinky77]

Hi all, I am writing to find out other peoples take on this situation. I am a mother of 3 kids under 5 with the view to returning to my work. I am going to have to pay £1000 a month for my kids to go to nursery. My sister also has 3 children and for 8 yrs my mother has minded these whilst my sister worked.
I am upset because I feel my sister has had this help and it should be my turn or at least shared. Also she has a higher salary and a husband that works less awkward shifts and a MIL that also helps. We are younger with less income and this expense is making it really difficult. My mum says she wishes she had more hands to help out but there is no talk of helping me instead. It's not just the work situation my kids also don't get any quality time with the grandparents as the others are looked after from 7 in morning then after school until 7 again 4 days week.
I have no inlaws or other family members available to help. My mum minds the odd time for a parents meeting at school or doctors appointment and will pick up one from nursery 3 days week but doesn't see them other than those times. I feel there are big differences being made and it is making life quiet tough but I haven't said too much to avoid any family rifts we have just been sucking it up and managing through. Any advice or opinions appreciated thanks

My Parents have done one overnight in 10.5 yrs (and no other childcare) so we could stay in a hotel nearby for our wedding anniversary. My inlaws live 4+ hrs away and help out occasionally in the school holidays to give our kids a break from the summer playscheme they usually go to as DH and I are both full-time WOHP. Nursery fees were crippling when ours were tiny - £1700+ pm and that was about 5 years ago. The fact you've chosen to have 3 kids is not your parents' problem. It sucks that your sister gets more help, but families are like that. My DSis used to spend ages whinging about how unsupported she was, despite her ILs having her PFB overnight every weekend (so DS and her H could keep up their pre-kids party lifestyle) and babysitting regularly in the week. You should be thankful you've got people nearby who can cover doctors appts etc - I've had smear tests with baby/toddler kids fussing in their pushchair the other side of the curtain because we had noone nearby who could take them.

After reading all these posts all I can think about is the children. Circumstances mean that the other children are all looked after by GPs and always have been. The only solution you are offering is that these poor kids are taken away from their GPs are sent to a childminder or after school club till 7pm. I think that is really odd that you think that is acceptable. I understand completely how unfair it is but swapping those kids out of their GPs care and yours in is so unsettling and cruel to them. Your DC do not have this experience so will not miss it and will settle in to the routine of nursery however you arrange it.

It is fair to talk politely to your sister and ask if perhaps one day a week the children could use a club or somewhere else so your DC get a day with their GP but you have no right to demand it. I certainly wouldn't discuss it with your DM. She does help you out when she can and sounds like she is very busy as a GP.

Pinky

If you feel you are being asked for more than you can/want to give by your DM or wider, then you need to place your own boundaries and only give of yourself what you are willing or able to. So if you don't want to do Christmas every year, then you need to say so. Don't agree to something, then simmer with resentment- the only person who will suffer if you do that is you.

Yes, it's a shame that things haven't worked out as you had hoped. However, circumstances change and what was once offered may no longer be possible or workable. Sometimes things aren't entirely fair and seeking to make it fair may become impossible for you mum.

You want your DM to recreate what you had with your DGM in terms of their relationship. I can see that relationship meant a lot to you, and can understand why you would like that for your DC. But what about what your DM wants? Maybe she doesn't want to do things that way. Perhaps she doesn't want to cut down on the time she spends with your nephews, for whatever reason. You will never know unless you ask her, but if you do this you have to be prepared to hear what she has to say. You either ask her, or make your peace with the situation as it is.

I do not agree that altering childcare arrangements for the existing children is cruel. They need to learn that things change, and that they have to share their GP. It will do them a lot of good and help them adapt should circumstances change further.

I do think it needs a conversation with GP as they might not know she is feeling that her children are left out.

"You should be thankful you've got people nearby who can cover doctors appts etc - I've had smear tests with baby/toddler kids fussing in their pushchair the other side of the curtain because we had noone nearby who could take them."

YY RomCom. Most recently I was in the dentist's chair while my 3-y-o sat watching. We have no family who can help and no friends nearby who can have him. I'm also currently looking at giving birth to DC2 alone (well, without DH) as we have no emergency childcare available.

I'm not saying this in a "woe is me" kind of way, because this is just how things are and we're perfectly happy with my family. I'm just more confused by the fact that the OP can seriously claim she has "no help from parents" when in reality she's a SAHM who STILL has her mum do a nursery pickup three days a week. I mean, that is shitloads of help as far as most people are concerned.

OP, I know this isn't the point, but I just have to point out that there are plenty of very hard working parents in the world whose children don't eat or sleep well and it is no fault of theirs!

Returning to this thread, I'm very surprised to find you were never suggesting that your nieces and nephews should lose their current childcare arrangements. It sounded exactly like this was the only option that you allow you to have 'your turn'.

My DM never gave exactly the same thing to each of her children. It probably worked out similarly, but she gave whatever she felt she could wherever she felt it would be most needed at that time. She also did this with children outside the family and I can think of friends who benefited from some kinds of 'mothering' that I didn't get. I could whinge that this was unfair but to be honest, it would be unreasonable because my DM had a right to give where she chose to give and yes, those other children probably did need it more at that time.

Life just isn't fair and no one is obliged to make it fair. Our parents are morally obliged to meet our needs when we're children and that's it. Anything else is a bonus.

It's a puzzle to me why anyone would rather spend their precious retirement doing the school run and changing nappies. GC are lovely in small doses I'm sure, but there's a whole world out there. I guess some grandparents just like to feel more needed than others.

Or maybe they want to save their DC a considerable amount of money whilst seeing their DGC in the process. And the DC appreciate that or even couldn't go back to work without that help.

And as for GC are lovely in small doses I'm sure,

Yes they are. Sometimes in bigger doses too...

For many GP, retirement is the first time on their lives when they could travel. A friend is a GP who does all the school runs, wrap around and holiday care. As a result she is only free to go on holiday rarely, and when GC are not at school, which is more expensive than she can afford. Helping out is very different from providing all childcare.

Op your stream of thought seems to vary from wanting equal help from your mum as your sister gets to only worrying about your mum having a relationship with your kids to feeling like your mum is letting you down and putting your sister first. I guess it is a mix of all three and it's hard to focus on what exactly you are looking for. I've only just turned 30 and my dd is 8 she helps me more than creates work for me. My niece is 2 and I love having her she is getting independent enough and plays nicely with my dd. my other niece is 9 months and honestly I would rather not mid her for more than an hour or two if there was any way around it. I love her but I find caring for her exhausting when I'm so past that stage myself. Perhaps your mum doesn't want to start off again with young kids for full days. Perhaps it's too far gone to change the routine she has with your sister

I have often felt very short changed too. But I compare my situation with that of friends as I'm an only child. Friends have mums who go in and iron and leave a casserole in the oven. Or take them away for a weekend. Or have them overnight. Or take them out for the day. I've never had anything at all apart from one gm comes to eat her Christmas lunch every year, then pisses off again until the following year. No visits in between. She only lives 2 miles away. The other gm lives so terribly that my dd won't set foot in her house. I feel sad that others will have great memories of their grandparents, but mine will have none apart from one who is disinterested, and one who is interested, but does not have the capacity to care for children.

I don't need any help, I'm just sad there is no relationship with any gp's.

I'm really feel for you OP

NannyOg I appreciate your point, but the problem is that some people think that their parents owe them free childcare and are screaming "it's not fair" like two-year-olds.

I think the eighteen odd years that we do our best for our children as they are growing up is our duty, anything else is extra.

I think it would be fine to share your household budget going forward to your parents and to say that, much as you would prefer not to have to ask them, since they already do so much for your sister (and quantify this if you can in monetary terms), you would like some help with childcare or else some cash assistance.

It is outrageous to give one daughter all that help and not to give equivalent help to the other daughter.

Please don't ask your mum for cash in lieu of services rendered.

I haven't read the full thread yet, but I hear you, op.

My parents in law give all the support in the world to my BiL and SIL but none to us. My parents do support us as much as they can, but they live far away.

We pay £600 a month on nursery fees while they get free childcare (kids are the same age) because their wee one is passed around from pillar to post - there is no solid childcare arrangement. PILs do things like finish work early to make sure they can pick up their wee one, but they can't seem to make it down to visit our daughter of an evening,

It used to drive me batshit mental. It really hurt. It seemed like a total snub. Now, however, I have accepted that they don't owe us anything, and that if they want to treat the two kids differently (there is more to it than I have outlined above) then it is completely and utterly their loss, because my daughter is fabulous. I am keeping good relations just now, through gritted teeth (I'm not going to say it doesn't still give me occasional rage) for my husbands sake, but in a few years time my daughter will see it for herself.

I'm actually quite proud of the fact that so far we have coped alone rather than relying on our parents for help and handouts. It's part of being a grown up. BIL and SIL were so desperate to be "first" at everything that they had a baby far too soon, couldnt afford it and are now in a right mess. We planned and saved. I wouldn't have their lives for anything.

Ha ha. I might work out how much the childcare my parents have done for my nephews would have cost and then send them a bill for it so it's 'fair'.

Please don't ask them for money towards childcare. That's a ludicrous idea.

The parents should feel obliged to help pay for the OPs childcare?

That's the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever heard.

Is it possible your Mum is too intimidated by your sister to suggest making changes to the current arrangement with the GC ?

Anyway I would try and completely stop thinking about this life is full of inequality and your DC are so young you could have this festering in your mind for years to come if you're not careful.

I find the DPs who have GM to do lots of childcare really don't appreciate it- it gets taken for granted over time.

DSis prob doesn't think she is getting more than her fair dos.

Also the eldest usually gets in first with the novelty of DGCs so is at an advantage, like they were the first child (always more photos of DC1 as a baby and had alone time with the DPs until siblings came along).

It's sod's law. If it were me I would attempt, no doubt wiht great difficulty, to cut hours with first DD to make time for DCs of second DD. But it prob wouldn't work wihtout a fall out (as DSis feels it is her due).

I always try to treat my DCs fairly.

Sorry, I haven't RTFT so might be repeating, but IME using grandparents for childcare is more trouble than it's worth.

I find the DPs who have GM to do lots of childcare really don't appreciate it- it gets taken for granted over time.

Oh yes!! My sister used to leave her two children with our mom for 13 hours a day each week. Our FT working mom then had to work her 37.5 hours over the remaining 4 days of the week. She was exhausted but my sister seemed to have no comprehension of this.

Our mom initially had my sister's DC1 DS from when he was 10m old and two years later, when my sister announced she was pregnant with DC2, my mom said to me, "She'd best not think I'm providing childcare for the next one too."

She also said something along the lines of this to my sister too but when my sister returned to work after maternity my mom did end up having both children as my sister just assumed it would happen and my mom felt too guilty to say no as she knew my sister would struggle with childcare fees for two and she couldn't see how she could agree to having one DC but not the other.

In total my mom provided this state of childcare (and the resulting compressed working hours over 4 days) for about 6 years in total and then she had to tell my sister she just couldn't handle it anymore.

My sister was then more concerned about the extra childcare cost than how tired our mom was.

Once the arrangement stopped my mom was able to work her FT hours over the usual 5 days instead of 4 and she was much better for it. It was a really awkward situation.

When I had DS I said to my DH that in absolutely no circumstances would I be asking my mom for any childcare. She'd "done her bit" in terms of childcare as far as I was concerned and I certainly didn't think she owed me the same childcare that she'd provided for my sister.

I don't think this is about childcare, it is about OP's relationship with her mother. She feels unwanted/unvalued/forgotten/passed over/taken for granted/neglected/unloved. Sometimes we manage perfectly well with this and understand the parents perspective and make allowances. Then one day, you wake up and realise that all the reasons/excuses your parents have given only apply to you.

It is difficult to quantify. The childcare issue is a yardstick by which this feeling can be measured and validated in the outside world. There would probably be other things too.

Op your mum was presumably in her late 40s when she started helping your sister. She's now 58 - that's a completely different life stage (I can tell you that being 59 myself). You start thinking about how many years of good health you have left and what you want to do with that time.

It sounds as if she does a lot. As well as your sister's kids and picking up your child three times a week, she visits her own mum who is presumably pretty elderly. If she doesn't already have caring responsibilties for her, she is probably anticipating them soon.

I don't think you've mentioned your father but if there is a husband or partner, what's their health like? There may be things they want to do together while they still can.

My guess is that she can see the finishing line in terms of day to day care for your sister's children and that the thought of committing herself for a further ten years scares her witless.

I do sympathise with your situation - and I'm not warming to your sister at all - but I sympathise with your mum even more.

And as for the poster who thinks you should bill your parents for childcare - thank you, that's one of the funniest things I've read on here all year!

I don't think 58 is particularly old to look after children, if that is what you want to do.

My mother turned into Mary Poppins for my sister when she was 60.

People have jobs in childcare until they are over 60. I will have to work until I am 67.

Oh I didn't mean it was too old! That wasn't my intention at all.

I'm saying that - from my experience - it's an age when you might start thinking about what you want to do with the rest of your life. If you want to spend another ten years doing childcare that's great for eveyone. But if you've already spent most of your adult life looking after other people you may feel it's time to do something dfferent and if that's the case, you shouldn't be criticised for it.

I think the problem is not that the DM is 58 and too tired to do childcare, but she is ok to do childcare for one, and that does not leave room for a normal grandparent relationship with the children of the others. Hence the weird situation that she is picking up one set of grandchildren up from school and going along to their after school activities, yet leaving the other DGS at the same school to go to childcare.

Personally, I will not be looking after any DGC full time at 58, although I may be lucky to get any by then

I did meet a DGGM in her 80s who used to bring her DGGD to our toddler group. She was only doing one day a week for a few weeks. The DM came along with them later. It was a very temporary thing and I think they all got a lot out of it. .