to not take one of my DC on holiday with us?

[livvielunch]

I have four DDs aged 9, 4, 3 and 9 months. My 9 year old is from my previous marriage. She's currently going through her preteen moody phase and is particularly keen on pushing boundaries, ignoring DH and I and being mean to her siblings. We want to go to Disneyland at Easter and I'm considering whether to go when she is away at her fathers. Obviously she will have holidays there that her siblings here do not, which she then gloats about to them. If she came she'd be constantly moaning it's babyish, telling her sisters the characters aren't real, complaining about sharing a room, calling her sisters babies and idiots for liking princesses etc. The younger three would have a much, much better time without her but it feels wrong going on a family holiday without a member of the family. Aibu to consider going without her?

Could you maybe wait till closer to the time to decide? Or maybe go at Halloween instead? I can totally see where you're coming from with not wanting to take her, however I think you'll have bigger repercussions than you imagine. Why don't you suggest that she comes up with some days out that you can all enjoy that she would like to do and see if that helps?

There are some older rides at Disney and I do t think it's babyish at all quite the opposite!

If your 9yr old shared the same dad as your other children, would you still consider leaving her at home (with a grandparent)? I suspect not!

This holiday is all about you. Your younger ones are far too young to enjoy it or even care where they go on holiday.

When I plan a family holiday, I take EVERY member of the family into consideration and book somewhere that I know there is something for everyone. I couldn't imagine booking a holiday that I knew one of my children would hate, then use that as a reason not to take them.

I only had one child, but I can understand that there are times when a mother is not the greatest fan of their child, it's just that we can't give in to those emotions, OP.

Haven't we all suffered enjoyed holidays/family days out where one or other of our children were hard work? Dd (17) was horrible this summer in Italy. No step-siblings/blended family challenges (although her brother did his best to wind her up); just normal teenage stroppiness. I confess to having wondered about putting her on a plane home at one point. So shoot me! She got over it, apologised and we'll postpone the therapy sessions until next time. It's called family life. It's not all like the adverts, after all.

I think some posters on here are determined to put the boot in and make the OP feel even worse than she already does. Ease off.

Two examples from me:

DSS was 15 and at that age, didn't go to his mum's every weekend like DSD did. (They lived with DP and I). He was told by his mum that she was taking his two sisters to Jamaica for a holiday, but he wasn't invited. DP tried to reason with his ex and say how unfair this was but to no avail and he did not go.

Years later- he's now mid 30s it still rankles and every so often it comes up.

Same DSS (about 12/13/14 at the time) made a huge fuss when I'd booked some theatre tickets for all of us to go. Sat there with a face on the whole time. About two years ago, we we talking and he apologised for being a moody what's it, and said he'd actually enjoyed the show, but couldn't come out and say it as he'd made so much if not wanting to go.

Please don't exclude your DD /DSD. She'll feel that rejection and hurt, for the rest of her life, whereas the 9 month old most definitely won't remember a thing about the holiday.

My parents put my siblings first (I was the eldest) all my life, and continue to do so; I've had to get used to it. That included going on holiday without me.
It hurts.

I always have to grimace at how quickly 'you really don't like her, do you?' Pops up

Anyway... OP I think your feelings are perfectly valid. The fact that you say you have one to one time with her every evening and you do something special every fortnight and she still behaves this way is so draining. It's all very well for strangers to be wringing their hands for your DD but when you're in the middle of it it's so hard to see the wood for the trees and get some clarity. Unfortunately I haven't any advice because I'm going through similar with my DD (though admittedly she is younger).

As for Disney, I'm kind of inclined to agree with those who say put it off for a year or two. She may actually want to go but doesn't want to admit it but if she whinges and is horrible the whole time then it'll just be a waste.

Way to scare off the OP ...at least Glitoris has been banned. I doubt OP will be back.

Aged 18, I went to work in France. My family had never had posh expensive holidays, but my dad was made redundant. They saw this as an opportunity to do a really amazing trip of a lifetime. Without me.

My parents did this when I was 15. I was off on an educational trip with school (geography trip to the French Alps) and my parents scurried off the second they waved me off on the coach to book a last minute holiday for them and my 9yo brother. I hadn't wanted to go on the trip, not a single one of my friends went and I was one of only four girls in the group, none of whom I knew. My family talked about nothing but how good their holiday was all summer and it still pisses me off a decade later.

I think you are getting a hard time OP but I would also consider putting off the trip or leaving the youngest ones..another option is going through the brochures and picking out the age appropriate stuff for her that leaves out the babyish stuff her siblings would want to do. I agree with posters saying that managing her behaviour towards them needs work. Being nasty to siblings shows her immaturity.
When I was 10 my DM and her then BF ( now DH) took his son aged 14 on holiday and left my DB and I behind with our grandparents. I honestly thought until they got in the taxi that we would be going too and was gutted when they left, when they got back we were told how they took him to Barcelona FC and he complained the whole time and he had sulked the whole holiday that he was bored..I was still am football mad, I was so jealous. they brought me back a pendent as a souvenir which only rubbed it in being a fair minded child I reasoned that they couldn't afford to take us all and it would be our turn the following year but no I was 19 and had to pay myself before I went away with them..DB never went at all he had left home at 16.
It still rankles today..I'm 49!
his son still takes precedence in my mother's life

I've never heard anything like this before . Are you seriously asking if it's unreasonable to leave 1 child out of a family holiday? Utter madness and unbelievably cruel.

OP,others and Lightdizzle I certainly didn't mean to sound patronising with mentioning spending one to one time with a child who has been acting out. I have a crazy busy family of 4 and often struggle with finding one-one time with each child. And my children do bicker and definitely improve when I've made time to spend with them, on their own.

I genuinely was hoping to support both the 'OP'/mum and also her child. I genuinely believe all parents with larger families struggle with sibling rivalry, but if ongoing and very intense, this seems to stem from how a child feels within the family, but maybe too it stems from their stage of development.

Maybe both is true? i don't believe a nine year old can always express how they feel within a family. It is supposition, you are right, but genuinely not meant as patronising. I believe it is common for children to be defensive when they are insecure and thought it may cause the acting out ? My youngest is nine years old and acts out to her siblings and I would not leave her out of a holiday because of it. No child is perfect and even if some are more challenging we love them and include them just the same. (after having appropriate consequences for their behaviour, and getting stressed out about how shitty parenting can be too, sometimes) i belive all families are a work in progress. Sometimes our holidays are less than perfect too, but we keep trying - together, as a family (and also sometimes make a crap job of it :)

Light

You've basically rehashed what other people have said. No-one has been patronising - just offered insights from their own experiences that the OP may not have considered, since she is in the middle of something very trying.

Why not try giving your 9 year old some small responsibilities in being the oldest sister and work towards your holiday at Disney? It might help her self-esteem to be trusted and reinforce that she is the oldest sister in a positive way rather than making her want to describe everything/everyone younger as babyish, it might also help her feel like she has some control and that her opinions matter.

If it's going well with you asking for her opinion and asking her to help you make small decisions then may be say you need her to help you design a fun winter day out for the family and it should involve something for each of her sisters to enjoy (including her) and it can start right with getting wrapped up and warm to go out, feed the ducks, hot chocolate in the cafe, make cookies at home etc. Once it's agreed she can tell her sisters what is planned - each activity and who it's designed for and she will be in charge that day with you hovering in the background to help out. It will also put her in the position of knowing what it's like to organise something for different ages and wanting everyone to get along and enjoy it. Worth a try?

livvie According to your other posts, you have been with your partner for ten years. But your 9 year old has a different father? What's the dynamic of that relationship?

Maybe get a handle on her behaviour why are you mentioning preteen nonsense if you dont get her behaviour into some sort of check you will be blaming her behaviour on hormones and because the sky is blue or its a wednesday and excluding her from a holiday will only make her behaviour worse imo

Why don't you allow her to choose the holiday she would like as a family? Gives her some control back, allows her to understand that her feelings and opinions are just as valid as anyone else's and that - most importantly - you are listening to her and care about her enough to do something that makes her happy.

I also think she sounds deeply unhappy and resentful. My eldest girl is 8, 2 younger siblings, all same dad and still together. Yet she has started sometimes to say mean things, that things are babyish and boring, stuff I am surprised and upset to hear her say. It's a difficult stage; they're growing up (too quickly), realising that life is changing, having hormone spirits (starts about 2-3 years before actual puberty) and one minute they want to be babyish and cuddled, the next grown up and independent. As eldest child they often feel responsible for the younger children and resentful that they have to be. Even if they're not being asked! I have found that 1-1 time with big cuddles, lots of tactile things like brushing hair, stroking backs really helps. You don't need to talk much, just reassure her that you are there and will always love her, no matter what. She needs you as her loving anchor. Please listen to her and us OP, it's hard when they're being horrid but there's always an unhappy message trying to get throug. Validate her, reassure her of your love and that she is an important and integral part of your family and you may see glimpses of your sunny kitty girl back. Hugs, because it is hard, and we all have stages when we don't like our kids' behaviour very much.

Sorry for typos. Spurts not spirits, through not throug, little not kitty

• I agree with iamanintrovert.
• All of us with siblings were only children until the first sibling came along. Mines 9 and 11 years later, in a blended family. I thought it was great and as adults they are my best friends in the world. So pls don't generalise about preferring to be an only child.
• I was once taken on a "once in a lifetime" holiday when my siblings were toddlers. It was the most boring holiday I have ever had, I would have been much happier reading in my room at my other parent's house for two weeks. OP, maybe your eldest daughter does not want to go.
• If someone after 20+ years can't forgive not being taken on a holiday as a child, they need therapy. It is not normal not to be able to forgive something like this.

I would first ask her if she wants to go, if she doesent then yes leave her with her dad. Nothing wrong with that, Disneyland is not every child's cup of tea.

OP a straight question: you don't actually like your eldest child do you?

penfold eye roll.

Maybe you overindulge her because she is a lot older, and because it's possible she feels left out of the family unit (so to speak, not being like her sisters with her mum and dad), and so you spoil her.
If so, then she will constantly want more from you (to fill her love tanks and feel wanted) and she will push you to give more. If this is the case you have a problem because she is feeling unloved.

Maybe you don't overindulge her or don't get along side her at all and maybe she is genuinely feeling angry and feeling left out. And so you see her lash out.
If so you also have a problem.

The thing is, it would be very difficult to get into her world when you have three younger kids (who take up so much of yours and your husbands/partners attention - and not her dads).
I suggest this might be the problem.
She is only 9. I would assume she is still figuring out her new family.
Nine (9) can seem so much older when they are the first child, and so much younger when they are they are the youngest.
9 is still very young. Don't forget that.
I'd be surprised if she genuinely doesn't want to go to Disney. I assume she more likely just feels angry and hurt for some reason and again I would suggest she feels unloved.

Kids rarely feel this much hurt and anger and lash out without have seemingly valid words in their heads like "I'm unloved" or "I'm unloveable".
They also pick up on our unspoken words (and actions) more than our spoken words.

The oldest can also sometimes feel like they are expected to be more able to do things and more independent (self sufficient) before they feel ready for it.

Maybe she genuinely feels pushed further away from mama, because of your succeeding babies. It doesn't take much for kids to see things wrong or make assumptions (and they will get it wrong).

I suggest be really clear, kind and loving towards her and see how she goes. Take her out once a week (as the other posters say). Ask her where she wants to go. Let her feel like she gets to plan where to go. Let her enjoy the fact that Mama and her are going out and that Mama will pay her all the attention.
Get in her world.
Genuinely try and understand her more and what she likes and what she thinks about things (her opinions).

Let her teach you how to do something, like how to play a game or fix something or how to brush her dolls hair.
Let her be centre stage for once. I think you might see a different girl come out of her.

Please though, do not leave her at home and do not let her miss the holiday.

To boneybackjefferson

IMHO it's precisely how parents raise their siblings together which impacts their relationship as adults. If one child or more are the golden children and one the scapegoat, there is resentment and "loathing" throughout their lives. If however, we raise them as equals, each with a valid, respected place within the family, and teach them to respect and understand one another (ie love) we are providing them with the skills to have an enriching, supporting relationship as adults. Let's face it for some, after our parents die or before that, if they split up, all we have is our siblings. FYI I was/am the scapegoat, my brother the golden child. This dynamic was entirely created an enforced by our parents. I have learned with age and soulsearching to realise this and love my brother; more importantly I have learned to tolerate my parents (not accept them) I now have the strength to take or leave their behaviour and ignore - without heartache - the things I don't like. From your post I get the impression you have loathed your sibling/s "every step of the way" perhaps you should look at how your parents effected your relationship as it shouldn't be like that and it's very sad. My point was that the OP has the potential to have four gorgeous children who love, not resent each other, by validating her eldest daughters feelings and treating all of their needs equally as opposed to breeding the existing resentment by not taking her on holiday; the knock on effects this could have. HTH

Selinemaratima

"from your post I get the impression you have loathed your sibling/s "every step of the way""

That is a huge assumption form the little bit posted here.

I also posted "every step in-between" not "every step of the way"

children and adults are allowed to dislike each other at whatever stage and for whatever reason.

To say that if

"we raise them as equals, each with a valid, respected place within the family, and teach them to respect and understand one another (ie love) we are providing them with the skills to have an enriching, supporting relationship as adults."

they will automatically "love" each other is wrong, there maybe a higher chance of it, but some siblings do not get on however they are treated by their parents, and to force them to do so will just ensure that they dislike each other more.