to not take one of my DC on holiday with us?

[livvielunch]

I have four DDs aged 9, 4, 3 and 9 months. My 9 year old is from my previous marriage. She's currently going through her preteen moody phase and is particularly keen on pushing boundaries, ignoring DH and I and being mean to her siblings. We want to go to Disneyland at Easter and I'm considering whether to go when she is away at her fathers. Obviously she will have holidays there that her siblings here do not, which she then gloats about to them. If she came she'd be constantly moaning it's babyish, telling her sisters the characters aren't real, complaining about sharing a room, calling her sisters babies and idiots for liking princesses etc. The younger three would have a much, much better time without her but it feels wrong going on a family holiday without a member of the family. Aibu to consider going without her?

I don't think YABU for the way you feel at all.

It's really hard when one of your children is behaving that way and not beeing nice to they're siblings and we've been going through the same OP,you have my sympathies.

We have 5DC 3 DS 19,17,14 our youngest son is autistic and 2 DDs 12 and 8 and our youngest daughter is also autistic.

We took 4 of our Dchildren away(oldest DS was doing overtime at work) this year over Halloween,it was the first time we'd been away over Halloween,we spent a small fotune,best accommodation,full board,new costumes for everyone.This country not abroad,I think that would have made me,DH and the rest of the children feel even worse.

DD12 was a complete and utter nightmare from the moment we got there pretty much till the moment we left and she had really wanted to go there as well and there was plenty for all of the children to do there.

She'd been playing up alot for a long time before we even went away and my DH said we should cancel the whole thing,I really didn't want to because I didn't think it was fair on the rest of the children and we would have lost all the money we'd paid for the holiday as well.

Oh God she was so bloody awful I actually had a few people come up and ask me if I was okay after she started on me one evening over nothing.

The next evening she pushed her Dad to far and he ended up walking out of the Restaurant we were in with her and took her back to the hotel whilst I stayed with our 3 other children that were with us.She'd eaten and DH had managed to eat and our other children who were with us were in the middle of eating but I'd had to deal with so much with her that evening that I hadn't managed to get any food let alone eat.

Her behavior really did spoil alot of the holiday for the rest of us,I didn't care about how it affected me but I did feel really awful for for our 2DS and DD that were with us and for her poor Dad who'd had to drive for hours to get us there.

One thing that we have found that's been working lately is that if she starts being negative towards her siblings,DH and myself we just ignore it.She really dislikes not getting a reaction,so not reacting,giving her a time out,bed early ect all those things that would end up with her screaming the house down us just not reacting to it seems to make her calm down alot quicker and she now actually tells us she's sorry and seems genuinely remorseful which is a big change.

I hope your DD's behavior starts levelling out soon for all of your sakes including her own.

Little and Seline, second sentence in the OP 'My 9 year old is from my previous marriage'.

You deign to give this poor child one-to-one attention once a fortnight and you wonder why she's acting out?!

She feels unloved, rejected and an inconvenience I'd bet money! Has your ex got a 'new family' too?

Seriously do some a lot of reading on the scapegoat/golden child/ren dynamic.

I really do not think it's exaggerating to say that you are on exactly the right path to losing your daughter in around 7 years time.

Every post is blaming her for being no more than a normal 9 year old in a situation most adults would find incredibly hard to live with!

In addition your way of handling this is going to teach your younger dc either

that the same could happen to them if they don't toe the line

That it's OK to treat someone badly because they're not perfect/don't 'belong'

4/3-year-olds, and babies, are much cuter than 9-year-olds, OP. More rewarding, in many ways; certainly, a lot of the time, more charming. I know that. But your oldest daughter is still very, very little. And she needs you. Please don't cut her out, and especially not on the grounds that she is 'spoiling things' for her younger, new batch siblings.

YABU. Work on the difficulties in the relationship, she may be feeling very pushed out as you have 3 new children in the last four years and for five years she was the only one. I am not baling you, my dd was the only one for 9 years before we adopted a three year old boy. But I know dd felt very out of sorts for a year.

I know it has been longer for you but I would work on these difficulties, and I think going to Disney Land without her will only put additional pressure on your relationship.

As the mother of an only child, I can say that she went through difficult patches, but they are only patches, I could never predict how a nine-year-old was going to behave in four or five months time. If I ever had to ban a friend of my dd's from the house, it was always a temporary ban, because children are growing and changing all the time.

You have labelled your dd as difficult and unpleasant and you are happy to let her carry that label forever. This is a human being you choose to bring into this world, you cannot write her off like that.

And personally I would look for a holiday that took her interests into account.

Well I don't think you are being unreasonable. I have a similar family structure just with fewer kids. Unfortunately there is no way to be "fair" to everyone. The child who goes to a non-resident parents' house is going to have treats there that their siblings don't have. And I think it's important for them to understand as they grow old enough that life goes on at their main home when they are not there. I think that if all treats and trips are held off whilst the child is visiting their NRP it can lead to that child becoming entitled and believing that the world should revolve around them. I may have to leave my older child behind when the rest of us go on an interstate holiday to visit relatives next year because the only time the adults can take holidays from work is when dd is scheduled to be away.

What happens if you give her the choice? We are taking your little sisters to Disney at Easter. Do you want to come with us, or go stay with your Dad?

I don't know what age Disney is suited to. Will you have to go again when the baby is bigger?

Here's a suggestion, how about investing the 1,000s you'd blow on Disneyland in finding out why your DD/DSD is so unhappy. Given her current behaviour, it would be an investment that would pay dividends for the whole family and for a lot longer than a week in bloody Florida.

But hey, if you want to take the easy solution of leaving her with her Dad because she's too much of a inconvenience, then go ahead. However, whatever's going on with her will still be there when you get back but with the added bonus of more resentment. What the hell would you do if there wasn't another parent to dump her with when times got tough? If you go ahead with this stupid idea, it'll become the solution of choice for all kinds of behaviour that you don't like. Sort this now because as hard as you think it is at present, her being older, will make it a million times harder.

Find a professional who can get to the bottom of your DD's/ DSD's obvious dissatisfaction. Shes 9 FFS! If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.

I don't understand why you would contemplate doing this, especially when she is of the age to get the most out of it. People don't normally leave one child out just because that child is in a 'difficult' phase. She is only 'being difficult' because she is an unhappy young child who doesn't know how to express it.

Personally I think the 9 year old is the one who is the right age for Disneyland and the others are all too young.

However, it could indeed feel far too babyish if you take them to Disneyland and are unable to let her experience the sections and rides that fit her age and not the younger ones.

So if she's not interested then I suggest planning a more local trip to somewhere that is designed for littlies and is appropriate to leave her out of. And think creatively about how you can involve her with the whole family doing something where she can feel part of the family and yet appreciated for being more grown up than the little ones. Good luck coming up with the right plans!

Good post Baconyum.

Why go to Disneyland when 3 of them are too little to get much out of it?

I agree that seeing you have 3 children in around 4 years will have really taken it's toll on your eldest. With respect even the most even handed mum would struggle to make sure the eldest didn't feel left out, you've been dealing with pregnancies and very young children for a while now. Can you really say, with all honesty, that your eldest won't have felt totally left out from all this making of a new family?

I come from a 'broken home'. In my mum's case she didn't have further children with my stepdad but I can't even tell you how difficult I would have found it if she did. I can't even imagine her having a 3 further children in a short space of time. How much time would she have had for me?

Please also consider that the number of children who are 'full' siblings in your house far, far outweighs the single unit that your daughter is. Can you not try to imagine what that must feel like in her own home?

I'm not trying to make you feel like shit but I think you really need to look at things from your daughter'a perspective. If she is being 'vile' there will of course be a reason for that. And personally it seems to me that the reasons may be obvious.

Could you have some family counselling so your dd can articulate any issues she has?

Also it seems to me that her constant reference to 'babyish' may be the only way she can express resentment at the younger children in the family. It's the acceptable difference she can name. They're younger = I don't want to do anything that's considered young.

I really think you need to get a handle on this.

This happened to me, sort of. Aged 18, I went to work in France. My family had never had posh expensive holidays, but my dad was made redundant. They saw this as an opportunity to do a really amazing trip of a lifetime. Without me.
Could easily have done it another time, but their stance was that I was working abroad having fun, so why would I care. I was/am perceived as the difficult one in the family because I stand up to my angry and abusive father. They still gloat about the holiday and it has become some sort of in joke.
I was 18 OP, you daughter is 9. Don't do it. And I would urge against Disney, as others have done forever until the children are older.

It also happened to me when I was a teenager and my family went on the holiday of a lifetime without me. It still upsets me 20 years later, don't do it. Set clearer boundaries for your DD, her behaviour clearly isn't ok but she is trying to prove herself. It smacks of self esteem/position within the family issues. If you really must push ahead with it then it needs to be her choice not yours. It sounds like she needs to be more integrated into the family to feel secure, not excluded.

I was left out of a family holiday to Florida Disney over the Christmas period when I was 16. There was a row because I apparently didn't save enough money from my part time job to pay for my hotel and food (impossible as I only earnt £20 a week which I had to use to pay for everything for myself). I then said I didn't want to go anyway although I definitely did. The real reason was that my mother/step father didn't want me there because I apparently wound my younger half siblings up just by looking at them . I was jealous of them but then I had reason to be. I used to be accused of pinching them to make them scream when they were pre-schoolers (10 and 8 years age difference) but they actually learnt to scream whenever I came near them because they figured out that that would get me into trouble. I never touched them at all.

I cannot tell how hurtful it was being left out, I still feel it 28 years later, just to compound the fact that I didn't matter at all. When they got back (I had been shipped to step grandmothers as I couldn't be trusted to be at home alone), they were all talking about what they did, what they'd seen. It was shit.

I dread to think how a 9 year old would cope with that.

I later found out that my older half siblings, who earnt more than me, did not have to pay themselves for their hotel/food anyway .

My eldest child is vvv similar but I'd still take him.

My parents didn't take me on two holidays when I was younger, one to the Caribbean and one to Florida. I knew I wasn't wanted.

The 3 little ones are the ones who are too young IME. 9 is the right age.

Your attitude towards your own child is quite shocking tbh, and I am usually a minority on MN as I think people go OTT with all this 'she's only a little child' stuff - kids are perfectly capable of understanding right from wrong and do need to be pulled up on unacceptable behaviour. However from what you've written she seems to be a total inconvenience to you. She's only 9. She's not a pre teen.

She sounds a little insecure and you don't sound as if you're very friendly towards her.
I would ask her for her help with the little ones .. tell her you want to make it magical but can only do that with her help.
She needs a place...you cannot not take her. Poor kid
And by the way she's nine .. You have at least another six years before she comes through the other side .. Go with the flow and make sure she has that role to play in your family.

Your poor dd. she sounds very lost and upset and doesnt feel secure in her position in your new family hence why she is acting as she is. Leaving out of taking her to disneyland will only reinforce in her 9 year mind what she thinks. Please dont leave her behind. In fact you need time with her alone as shes needs you really badly now. She doesnt have a her mum and dad who live together anymore and three more sisters in a short time. I just want to hug her. Poor little girl. Please look after her.

Why not speak to her and ask her if she would rather it go .. Offer her something instead as a substitute .. My dd is 12 and doesn't like things that my 4 year old does but I always include her or offer her a substitute outing or to bring a friend.

Just wanted to say there's a lot of stepmother hate showing itself on this thread.

Families do do different stuff with different kids, not everyone gets to do everything. This case does sound a bit different though.

When it comes time to book it ask her and remind her that once her mind is made up, it's made up.

Personally I think Yabu.

I just don't believe this is your dd you are talking about.

Sort her behaviour, don't exclude her.

It doesn't matter that you do stuff with her. In her mind it's a case of 'she is the odd one out' or rather 'one of these things is not like the other'.

She was an only child for 5 years (ish) now her life has completely changed.

She is a child. Her unkindness shouldn't be tolerated and should have consequences. She probably doesn't want to go because she knows you are going for the other kids really.

I simply don't believe this is your dd.