to think it is unacceptable for a 45-year-old man to date girls just out of their teens?

[Werksallhourz]

Please someone tell me that I have not slipped through a rip in the fabric of reality here.

I have an old friend who does not have a partner, and has never had a serious relationship. He's now 45.

I had a conversation with him about looking for a partner, and some of the things he was saying started to sound, to me, very disturbing.

He seems to think that there is no problem with him dating a girl in her early 20s. He says that I am "old-fashioned" for saying it is not really appropriate for a man of his age to date a girl so young.

Just to reiterate: we would be talking about a 45 year old man dating a 21 year old girl.

He also seems to be of the opinion that this is okay because young women look at him on the street because "they fancy him". At this point, I started to get alarmed.

When I suggested that he might be mistaken, he claimed that people think he is a lot younger than his age anyway, that girls in their early 20s can be "very mature", and told me this story about how a young woman looked at him on the bus and how he knew she wanted him to follow her when she went to get off.

Now maybe I could understand all this if my friend looked like a something off the cover of Esquire, but he doesn't. He's in very poor physical health -- in fact, I would go so far as to say he looks terrible.

And we are not talking about someone who has done very well in life in conventional terms either. He now lives in a room in a house-share after losing his flat, and as far as I know, he hasn't worked for years. The last time I visited him at his flat, the place was a state: filthy floors, bin-bags of clothes on the floor, holes in the walls, and a strong fetid smell in the air.

I am starting to suspect that his life circumstances have meant that he has become so removed from normal society that he has become delusional.

But most of all, I have a really foreboding feeling about his attitude that it would be okay for him, at 45, to date a 21-year-old, particularly when he seems to think these young women are checking him out on the street. To me, it seems to indicate something worrying, but I am not sure what it is.

AIBU?

Of course young women in their twenties want to date men in their 40's, 50's and even 60's ........... but usually when they are wrinkly old rock stars and totally loaded.

I have a friend who is seriously delusional. I mean bonkers. But because she is feeding/clothing herself & presentable & quite sane until you get onto her delusional topics & voices that are talking to her you would have no idea.

There's also nothing that can be done. You cannot force treatment on anyone until they become unable to care for themselves & can be sectioned. Adult SS can't do anything here - despite the delusions he will be judged to have capacity & that is it.

The only options you have (& they may not be appropriate) is to encourage him to seek help (but if you say you think he is delusional expect to be cut out) or to contact the police if you think he is becoming dangerous to others. If he deteriorates to rhe point of sectioning things change, but until that point it's not easy to do anything.

This is a more severe situation, Devilishpyjamas because the OP's friend is not feeding himself, is unable to care for himself and you can clearly tell that he is ill because he is emaciated. He may have reached the point where he can be sectioned.

why did you write "girls just out of their teens" when you meant girls in their 20's, other than to be deliberately inflammatory?

I knew someone who had been single a long time (although had a constant string of one night stands as they were well dressed and good looking) and they lived in a tidy, almost obsessively neat flat. He also said stuff like "I was in the British Library today and this young student kept looking at me. I could tell what she was thinking..." He was 35 at the time. I thought it was a bit weird but not beyond the bounds of reality as in his case he was quite pleasing on the eye and very charismatic.

But those things bothered me.

Some time later, he was diagnosed with Paranoid Personality Disorder, and not a mild case, either. It also turned out he had been grooming 15 year olds online. (Does OP's friend have a computer?) He had kept the chat logs to 'enjoy' later. He was trying to set up meetings with them, but with one eye to legality, only when they turned 16...

They were eventually banged up for harassing a woman and later convicted (but given a suspended sentence, maybe in light of the MH issues) for harassing another.

Warning sirens are blaring out here, OP.

Forgot to say but if he is running it past you re, women in their early 20s, chances are he is sounding you out because he is really thinking even younger. I saw this pattern with the person I mentioned above. He'd also swing from normal to obese and go through phases of only eating one thing. He currently cycles 40 miles a day (unemployed) and looks skeletal, as well. So the dramatic weight shifts may be related as in this person's case, they were.

I do happen to think any man in his 40s or 50s even thinking about women in their early 20s, is deeply creepy but I may have been conditioned by knowing this weirdo.

Men that find it difficult to forge relationships with women their own (or near their own) age are a bit sad imo.
It shows a lack of maturity on their part that they actively seek out someone a lot younger.

The following women bit is alarming and i would be concerned, but not dating younger women.
I'm appalled by comments on here that women can only be interested in older guys if they have money, it's inappropriate, sick etc
Women in their twenties are adults!
I know a couple of women in their twenties who are with blokes in their forties and have had kids.
These men, shock horror don't even have any money, they just fell in love.

Yabu about the age difference. He does sound a bit dodgy though. Regardless of age, thinking that a woman "wants" following is a bit unnerving

Men that find it difficult to forge relationships with women their own (or near their own) age are a bit sad imo.
It shows a lack of maturity on their part that they actively seek out someone a lot younger.

Exactly. They can't cope with a relationship with their equal. And it suggests that their approach to relationships is that they need to be superior & dominate, and see women as only valuable for their looks/youth.

women can only be interested in older guys if they have money

No one actually said that. What was said is that it is often a factor.

Yes women in their 20s are adults obviously and do as they please. But the idea of someone deliberately seeking out and following younger women is wrong. What is normal is to just meet someone without age being the determining factor. Yeah they may be older/ younger. So what???

"If he were driving around in a top of the range car, wearing an Italian suit, flashing cash, with rock hard biceps and cut-glass cheekbones, then, yes, he might attract attention from young women on the street".**
**
A little judgemental to assume that's what young women are after. I am in my early 20s, I find older men attractive regardless of their material belongings, biceps or cheekbones.

I don't see the issue with him dating younger women. A woman of 21 can decide what she wants herself.

However, his remark about following women is creepy. That is all you should be concerned about.

My ex is 30 and his new girlfriend is only just 18. She writes about their every move all over Twitter apparently even though they have been together a month, declaring he's her 'everything' it reminds me of being in school. He has 3 children with me and since he's been with her she's been begging to see them. I don't think little girls have any place playing at being adults and should stick to people their own sort of age who they have things in common with. I'm 27 and the thought of dating an 18 year old makes me cringe. It would feel like babysitting.

Sorry you're having a tough time Nurse, she does sound annoying. I think you're generalising a bit, though.

to be picky someone who is 21 is only just not a teenager. 19 = teenager 20,21 = only just not teenage.

Araiba

No, not to be inflammatory at all. In fact, I realise I used "girls" in my op because that is the language my friend uses.

I wrote the op just after I got off the phone to him when this all came up. Throughout the conversation, he kept referring to "girls", not women.

I noticed it, and it started to make me feel uncomfortable. While it is a fairly conventional use of language for a young man in his 20s to talk about "meeting girls", that specific phraseology becomes rather peculiar when a man gets into his mid-40s.

I pointed this out to him, but he just got argumentative about it. He tried to correct himself, saying "young women", but he still accidentally kept saying "girls".

The thing is ... 45 year old single men just don't say they want to "meet girls" when they are referring to meeting members of the opposite sex for a relationship, unless it is in some form of idiomatic context.

Somewhere in all this, there is a truth about my friend and his mentality. He is either psychologically stuck in his mid to late 20s (which there is a lot of evidence to support) or he simply wants to find a female that is pretty much just out of her teens because he thinks her youth and inexperience will make it less likely that she challenges him on his attitudes, behaviour, choices and lifestyle.

I know I might sound a bit harsh with that latter statement, but there is also evidence for that reading of his motivations. He was involved in a situation about ten years ago that I felt crossed a line. I can't say too much, and it wasn't anything illegal, but it involved a young woman under 21 from a deprived background in another country. What he did, to my eyes, was exploitative and, from a certain angle, could be read as a blatant expression of male privilege and misogyny. In doing what he did, within her culture, he ruined her life.

Why have I bothered with him all the these years? Because I just don't know whether he is just very confused, deluded and lost, or whether he is some sort of sociopath who knows what he is doing and just doesn't care.

Increasingly I am just wondering why you are friends with him still? If he follows people off buses and ruins people's lives.

People who are "very confused deluded and lost" usually show some signs of wanting something better from their lives, however intermittently, incompetently or haphazardly they try to change, there is usually some indication. If you've known him for years there would be some chink of light showing. Even if it was as simple and sad as having situational depression and realising because of that that life needs to change. (And no, I don't think that talking about young women being attracted to him and wanting him to follow them counts as making a positive change because he is moving towards getting a partner.

He sounds severely anorexic to be honest, can you not get him professional help on that basis, mention your concerns about being a danger to others as part of that process. (That way he is being both a danger to himself and others). And then, unless big progress is made as part of whatever official process that brings, slowly and gently back away.

If you feel strong enough to be honest with him about why, that could be the kind of jolt that wakes someone up. But I think that is a long shot and in no way should you construe it that it is your responsibility to save him by being honest about why you are backing away.

It's a very, very difficult situation to be in, but something the best thing is to realise when you are out of your depth and act accordingly.

The bit chutney highlighted is a good bit!

Not all men who go out with younger partners can't handle a relationship with women their own age, or that they need to dominate.

How offensive.

Why are you all getting so offended?

The OP didn't talk about a 45 year old man who wants a relationship with a specific young woman, but about a 45 year old man who apparently will only consider women in their early twenties as potential partners.

And that is very creepy.

I don't know what to do about it, except watch him and report him when he actually starts to stalk young women.

I'm with you. A ex-boyfriend of mine from university is now dating someone who has just finished university. I guess 20yo? We are early forties. Seriously the photos on fb are like dad and daughter. I know she is an adult. But you wonder about gold digger. My friend has a daughter and an ex wife, and does very well financially. So has more conventionally quality to attract younger woman.

From what you described, I think there is something wrong with him.

After that post, yes, you must call and report him. Someone who could exploit a powerless individual back and walk away is someone who could easily do what JeffreyB suggested -- groom young girls online or he could be testing you out to see how you reacted. Either he has actually followed young women or even girls off buses or elsewhere, or he is actively preying on teen girls, or both. I think you should alert police to his living conditions, his emaciation, and mention your concerns about following women.

I realise this situation has sort of grown on you over the years and you see more facets to him than strangers on the internet do, but someone like your boss like all of us, a stranger to him who got a call or email from this man out of the blue would immediately think 'crazy'. I don't think you have anything to fear unless you committed a crime and he knows about it.

I really don't know what you think the police are going to do about it?

No vestal it's the posts stating older blokes going out with women in their 20's are sad, can't deal with proper relationships, immature, inappropriate and the women are just after money.
That is offensive.

I've already said that what he was saying about women and possibly following then is alarming.
Also sounds like he is not eating anywhere near what he needs.
Don't know if
he will be sectioned though, it takes a lot.

Mathanxiety ... Posting here has actually clarified a lot of my thoughts, though it is more that the murk has got slightly less murky, rather than the water has become crystal clear.

One of the reasons why I get very confused with him is that, for example, he doesn't seem to think that he did anything wrong in that incident ten years ago. And if you look at what happened from a certain perspective, he kinda didn't. But the cultural context in which the incident took place meant that what he did was extremely destructive.

It's like he doesn't seem to understand really basic social mores. For example, it took me a long time to convince him that he needed to wash his bath towels and flannels. He just didn't understand why because "they don't get dirty". When I tried to explain that they do and bacteria can be present, he just couldn't compute it. To him, he used his towels when he was clean, so how could his towels get dirty? And I had an identical conversation with him about cleaning his toilet and his sink when I last went to his flat.

A few years ago, I did start to wonder whether he might have some sort of developmental disorder because he has some rather unique traits. His language use can be very unusual at times. He will use words that, while they are correct, do not fall within an everyday lexicon and he doesn't seem to recognise that there is a difference in emotional strength between, say, "dislike", "hate" and "despise".

But, as you can see from the thread, I just end up going round and round in circles when I think about it all. I realised last night that he creates a "glitch" in my processing that I can't resolve because the data eternally contradicts itself, so I can then never come to a conclusion that then allows me to make an informed decision as to whether I should engage or walk away. I am just stuck eternally trying to process paradoxical code.

It's not unacceptable. There are many successful relationships with a huge age gap, what really matters is how the people involved feel about it. I know one girl whos 21 in a relationship with a man who is 39, so pretty close to what you're describing. They manage fine.

What I find a bit troubling is this bit about "he knew she wanted him to follow her". How did he know that, what led him to believe this? Did the girl he followed respond to this in a positive way, or did she seem creeped out?