I absolutely hate working and believe it to be the worst thing about being an adult. AIBU?

[IntoTheSunset]

I'd like to allay any concerns that anyone might have about my work ethic firstly. No one has ever complained about it in any job I've had. I realise that people have to work. I just find it depressing that I will likely have to continue working into my sixties and beyond. I'm 42 and would gladly retire tomorrow if I could. I also don't like how a person's place in society is defined by their job ahead of anything else. Do any MNers feel similarly?

Exactly bumdance! Was about to come on to ask the same thing myself. I've some sympathy with the argument that for families to have as many long hours, high responsibility jobs as there are adults, a lot of relatively low paid domestic labour generally needs to be outsourced to make that a possibility. But the problem with people who point this out is that almost invariably, they talk about the women in the couples getting other women to do their childcare and domestic work. The attitude still persists that it's somehow the woman's responsibility not the man's. Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

On the subject of blaming solely women for things that are men's doing too, I'm not quite sure why we seem to be carrying the can for men not being 'able' to go part time, or be SAHDs, or have all these options we supposedly have. The status quo suits lots of men very well, and the fact is that plenty of them do or could get part time working or whatever if they were to do as we do, ask for it and be willing to accept the negative consequences. My DH has. We had a 500 post thread recently on Justine MNs article in the FT about women wanting different things to men in work, well if that's true it applies just as much to the hours gap as it does the pay gap.

My DH would love to be a SAHP when our baby arrives, however he earns more than me, so it makes sense to "lose" the lower wage in our household. Plus, the company I work for has much better maternity/paternity terms than his... If I was the higher earner, I'd be taking as little time off as possible then passing childcare responsibility over to DH....

I like work. In my mid-30s I started feeling a bit alienated and ground down, so took a few months off to go travelling and have a break (didn't have a gap year when younger and had been working full time since 21). It was fantastic but also revitalised my enthusiasm for work as I realised how easy it was to let the days slip by without doing much, and how many great experiences I have only had access to through work.

The friends I have who have never managed to sort out careers for whatever reason are rather unhappy and a bit lost.

It's interesting that when a couple outsource their domestic work to someone they pay then that is 'wrong' in some people 's eyes.

Why? Is there something morally superior about doing your own ironing?

Only if you have a vagina shegotallthemoves.

I hate my job (hospitality). Minimum wage and being treated like shit by customers. Not to mention the zero hours contract so some weeks you can work 45 hours, other's as little as 7. I have been unable ( since moving with DP to a remote area to look after his elderly relative) to get a job in my previous higher paid job that I absolutely loved. On the upside we live in a beautiful place and I don't have the horrible 3 hour commute on the tubes anymore.

Floppityflop

Oh yes, I remember, I got my promotion because of my testicles rather than overtime, mentoring and consistently reliable competence. Next interview I'll just unzip my fly and flip them out rather than working 9am to 9pm, Lord knows it would be easier.

so who looks after your kids when you work 9-9?

Or don't you have them maybe, in which case I guess you don't need any back-up

It isn't really a Victorian factory owner construct that women were largely responsible for day to day childcare and running the homestead while men disappeared off to fight, hunt, suffocate down the mine, or improve the family status in a man's world, so I'm not sure where Garlick got that notion from. If anything, it's the industrial revolution and filthy Victorian factories that required more and more women to go out to do work that had no connection with the preparing or growing of food, caring for offspring and elderly relatives, or keeping the home clean and safe.

On another note, it is interesting that biologists will quite happily study other animals and observe that the males and females often have quite different roles and behavioural traits, but we aren't allowed to do this with human beings. We are asking men and women to evolve through the process of thought, as our man made world is evolving so rapidly, and our hormones aren't always keeping up with that. We are now, apparently, expected by some feminists to see the uterus as a biological inconvenience inflicted on women, but which is only there to be leased out for nine months and make the mother's stomach protrude inconveniently for a bit before the male and female can get back to being identical in needs, wants and interests. There isn't really anything natural in expecting such a radical change in thought so incredibly quickly in the big scheme of things (ie in evolutionary terms). It is, in fact, a colossally ambitious project.

I'd like to see a male blackbird help its female partner build the nest and brood the chicks some day! I don't think it'll be in my lifetime, though - our human industry will probably kill the blackbirds off, first.

BabyGanoush

I don't have a child yet, but when I do, I will be a SAHD. This understanding is central to the relationship I am in.

Gender roles forced my great grandfather into the mines, my grandfathers into war and my father into a job he's hated all his life. Sod that.

toundabout I think it's a bit of a stretch to portray society pre industrial revolution as some halcyon time for women. Or indeed a more 'natural' time.

We have very little idea what women thought if their role or what they actually wanted, because their views are so little recorded.

What we do know us that women did work manually alongside men.

Those with wealth of both sexes did neither manual work outside or within the home.

I think we would be hard pushed to see a biological imperative at work.

Yep I agree op. Even though I enjoy a lot of my job now as I retrained in something I love. I still hate the routine. Getting up at specific times, having to be organised, the annoying things like having to book time off, bosses being annoying, spending so much time with colleagues! The silly little rules on clothes, little procedure. You know what I mean! I still love bits of it but I'd rather never work lol.

?! Where have I portrayed the pre-industrial era as halcyon?!

Surely is a biological imperative at play regarding drive to have children and to raise them SheGotAllDaMoves - and I would think slightly more so for women than men although a strong life driver for many men too

Frankly, I don't think the life of any animal is a halcyon one. Why anyone would think I was arguing that it is fun to grow food, prepare food, look after the homestead and care for the elderly, I don't know. It is probably easier to do now than it used to be, though, as are most manual tasks outside the home, with the help of modern technology.

The way I've always experienced life as a man, unless you're 'motivated' and 'ambitious' in your career you're worth nothing in the dating scene, so I grit my teeth, tell the lies, earn the money and chase the promotions all so I don't end up alone.

Admittedly my knowledge of the dating scene is about 20 years out of date but I can assure you not all women would rate that. My DHs attitude to work - that free time and a decent home life are more important than money and social status - is one of the things that I love most about him. I want a partner who is there and who raises our children in partnership with me. Not one who is absent from home 5 days a week only to reappear at weekends tired and burnt out and, as a result, hardly knows his kids.

juggling I think most humans do feel the biological imperative to reporduce, yes.

But actually, it is very limited compared to other animals. Most women spend their fertile years avoiding pregnancy. And this is not a modern concept per se. There is evidence of contraception and abortion in many locations and in many periods of history.

Also, the concept of what it is to 'raise' a child differs hugely depending on which sex one asks, where and when. I'm not certain we can come up with a definition and say that is what raising a child looks like and we are biologically driven to do that IYSWIM.

When women are given meaningful choices, they choose many different paths. Just like men.

roundabout apologies. I clearly misunderstood you.

Well exactly. Meaningful choice means accepting that not all men and women will make choices that suit your view of the world.

That's OK, SheGot.

JohnCusacksWife

I believe you when you say that you may feel this way, but I have been in otherwise happy, affectionate and equal relationships where the decline can be directly traced to the moment I stated that I didn't value career progression at all, and was content with easy (and materially sufficient) work where I was. Even the most feminist woman I was with started to pull away when I said was happy with the low level job I had and that I'd be happy for her to be a higher earner. This was not about failing to contribute either - it was the fact that I wasn't 'embracing my potential' - which after discussion and clarification was revealed to be the potential to support her when she stopped working to raise children.

Like every other man I've spoken to, I've always felt judged by my material value and earning potential. Like every man apart from those brainwashed by patriarchal machismo, I hate it.

Like every man who I've spoken to apart from those brainwashed by patriarchal machismo, I hate it.

roundabout Indeed.

It amuses me greatly how little imagination many have. How utterly convinced they are that their way of life/doing things is the only proper way.

What do you think the women doing the childcare would be doing if they weren't working in childcare? Presumably they chose to be childcare workers, and as a result, they themselves have financial independence, a pension and access to education and promotion opportunities.
Do you think if they weren't working in childcare, they would be able to be at home with their own rosy cheeked children, poor but happy, waiting for their husbands to come home with the bacon, knowing their parents had a mortgage free house that they would inherit when they got old to fund their retirement?
Actually. my old childminder has a thriving business, she is her own boss and makes a good salary. Shes excellent at her job and is massively in demand. I couldn't do it. She can.
Thanks garlick I agree with everyting you sais too

Beginning to loathe working. My job is fine, but I don't have a career, I've always just floated about with no clear idea of what I want to do or be - my job just pays the bills and isn't stressful, but I hate that miserable daily commute, being out of the house for so long, dealing with the contradictory expectations of your seniors, working with people that need a cream pie around the face. Some days sitting in an office feels like the most pointless unnatural thing to do with ones life. But I guess I would feel differently if I did something I actually enjoyed, I could never not work as I enjoy the routine, being out and about doing something with your time, plus being around different people, but I hope in the future once I have some free time as a SAHP I can work towards something I actually enjoy doing, for when I go back to work eventually :)