To think traditions should be allowed to develop naturally

[Daisysbear]

as opposed to being force fed. I just see posts on here going 'no, no. MIL can't come this Christmas. We want to build our own traditions' 'SIL wants to buy DS an advent calendar but I want it to be my tradition' etc etc and it sounds a bit contrived and planned. Most of our family traditions were things that just happened one year, were repeated the following and before we knew it a new tradition had been created.

AIBU to think that traditions don't usually start out as 'traditions' but gradually become ones?

Treats Tue 01-Dec-15 16:37:06

wonderful post treats what an excellent way of describing it.

.

The grandparents have already had children to 'do' advent calendars and stockings with. Surely there are plenty of other lovely things they could get involved with or have as their own tradition with their grandchildren?

And with all the "why shouldn't grandparents be able to do x with their gcs?"

If the parents are happy for you to do it, then go right ahead. If the parents aren't happy, for whatever reason, then don't. Suggest something else. Even if the reason seems silly to you.

Especially if the objecting parent isn't your own son or daughter. Their experience and expectations of Christmas will be different from yours, and you can't expect them to just go along with what you've always done.

Treats I can say no more on the matter, you put it all so well.

And the true issues behind it all so well.

The problem with grandparents taking over (and the reason some parents fight it) is that it usually is only one side of the family.

Yes, I totally agree

When my kids were small we had issues with MiL wanting to rail road everything.

When DH was growing up she was a struggling single parent, by the time we had kids she was much better off and wanted to spoil her GC in a way she hadn't been able to spoil her own DCs

Which was fine to a certain extent, but I also had traditions from my family Christmases that I wanted to introduce and things I wanted to do

So, for example, growing up we always had new pyjamas on Christmas eve. They'd appear on our beds while we were in the bath and my Mum would tell us that Father Christmas sent his elves ahead to make sure children were getting ready for bed. We'd then snuggle down with hot chocolate and she'd read The Night Before Christmas. I loved it growing up and will always remember that thrill of seeing those little packages on my bed and wanted to do it with our kids. I even had my childhood copy of The Night Before Christmas.

Then one year MiL, totally unexpected turned up on Christmas Eve afternoon with a 'special present that they elves had left at her house' that they could open there and then. New pyjamas and a copy of The Night Before Christmas.

She hadn't said anything and if she had we'd have been happy to come up with something but she just kind of railroaded us.

I've never wanted to exclude her, but she'd never let us have anything iyswim

Because OP, different things matter to different families, and the 'crunch' situations seem to be either a) with MIL when DH's family tradition comes up against the mother's family tradition and both can't happen, or b) with the MNer's parents who got the 'fun' of doing certain things with their DCs, who now have grown up and want to do that with their DCs, but the Grandparent wants to 'carry on the tradition' but when it was their turn it was the parent doing XYZ, now it's the grandparent.

Few MNers are complaining that they don't want their PIL/Parents from doing anything with the DCs, more that there's certain things that matter to them and they want to do those.

Because those things don't matter to other families, or other families traditions could fit in those things, doesn't mean the mothers are wrong for wanting to have certain traditions for their DCs, either new ones or reproducing the ones of their childhood.

treats you describe what is often the underlying problem well.

My parents and inlaws have good relationships with their respective grandchildren but there have been none of the below:
Expected regular visits.
Expected overnight stays with a baby or todler.
Expected to be there Christmas Day.
Regular overloading with gifts and clothes.
Expecting to take them out on trips.
Wanting to be Santa.
Wanting to have their own Christmas Traditions with the children. I would have been more than happy if they wanted to do Panto every year etc, what I mean is there has never been any tears from them that they can't provide Santa gifts so we have to placate them with other jobs to do.

I don't dread becoming a MIL because I don't think that my experience is that abnormal, none of it feels forced. We visit inlaws and parents because we want to, they visit us because they want to. They offer to babysit for a night to one week because they enjoy spending time with the kids and to help us out. They ask what would be useful for xmas and birthday presents, then get extra small fun things on top. We can all get over the little things that rub us up and be flexible. I doubt if my husband dreads becoming a FIL either.

So basically, grandparents should stay quietly in a cupboard until required.

Maybe its partiality because both dp and me come from large families that it's fairly ingrained that you can't do the same all the time and expect everyone else to do the same as you. My parents would have had to realise early on that each of their children would be running their famlies how they wanted.

If I beome a grandmother it wouldn't occur to me to cause a fuss if my son and dil said actually mum can you say your presents are from Santa too. I wouldnt be purposefuly saying to my grandkids these are from GRANDMA and causing grief.

Me and dh do alternate Christmases at his parents and we stay from Christmas Eve to Boxing Day. They do things differently to me and will probably want to do dd(5) Christmas stocking etc. and I will let them do so with no complaint even though I'd like to do it instead because it'll bring then so much pleasure and dd will love it whoever does it. That's what Christmas is about not sticking to traditions.

It's only on MN that I have seen deliberate possession/ownership of traditions. Everywhere else they just happen.

Not at all, Bertrand. I have a large and warm family, there is lots of grandparent contact and they do quite a lot of stuff with the kids and also send presents.

The reason I never post any DParents or DPIL threads is they check, we talk. They wanted to give electronics before, but because they asked it was no problem. I didn't have to ponder how to stick to our "no tablets aged 4" rule because they without a huff bought something else when we said please don't.

I think it is more the "she is bloody well going to have a tablet if I buy one" type grandparent who stresses out parents.

I can't believe so many mums parents are sooo territorial over their kids

what is all this 'treading on parents toes' stuff - I mean naming your kids, choosing their schools stuff like that is what parents do - but buying a calender - worst case scenario the kid has 2 of them - not sure that's going to scar them for life

Treats why does it have to be either an entirely separate entity with parents and dgc or one entity directed by the grand mother?

I have my own family with DH but I'm also part of my family with my parents and DH is Katy of his. And because of that it means that me and the dcs are kart if DH's family and the dcs and DH are part of mine.
There is no hers or his or mine and theirs just a new family unit within another two family units.

What that means is that I wouldn't have wanted to give up on our family tradition of celebrating Christmas Eve but there is no reason why I would stop DH doing something for Boxing Day. Actually because they are two different days, both are integrated into our new family tradition.
We have stockings (DH) but all the presents come from Santa (me).

Why does it have to be so prescriptive and its 'MY' way and no I'm not going to take into account yours?

Maybe grand parents AND parents need to learn how to compromise a bit to make it a nice time for the whole family

'DH is Katy of his'

Is calling him Katy one of their traditions?

'Maybe grand parents AND parents need to learn how to compromise a bit to make it a nice time for the whole family'

But yes. This I agree with.

Chat a bit more and seethe a bit less.

What is there was a clash of christmas eve traditions? One a party the other going to church? Who decides then?

erm ... you do both! we've managed to several times

My Mum was here this weekend and left an advent calendar for me and one for DC.

We've just opened them ( holly and an Art Deco lady wearing a half crescent moon on her head if anyone's interested).

Would anyone really be pissed off that they hadn't been to the shops and bought them? Really? Are their lives so empty that they could care less?

I think treat has summed up why the angst comes about very well.

I'm quite happy with how things go in my family (by which I mean my "unit" and then my parents/DB/DSis and PIL/SILs/DNs). At the moment my PILs do "monopolise" Christmas dinner - MIL doesn't so much invite us as expects us. That's fine, her house is better suited for hosting, my parents don't really do a big fancy Christmas dinner like PILs like etc. But there are now 5 grandchildren, all aged 5 or under. At some point going to MIL's for a massive everyone-on-top-of-eachother Christmas dinner is going to stop being as enjoyable as it has been so far. We see my parents in the morning/over lunchtime but I sometimes think it would be nice to not have to say "well thanks, see you in a few days" at 1.30 so we can get to MILs for 2ish. It seems to be our "tradition". When DP was a lad, they used to go to his mum's parents for Christmas day, until one year they didn't and they saw them in the evening instead. MIL has had to be the game changer herself, so you would think that she will be ok with the plans having to change in a few years (should the need arise).

RE: the stockings - in our family (again, everyone, both sides), doing two stockings wouldn't even occur to anyone, because they come from Santa/FC. Again, advent calendars just appear, and no one worries about them. But just because that's how our priorities work doesn't make anyone else daft for feeling that a calendar is important (whether hand sewn, chocolate filled, or hand sculpted by farsighted alpine goatherds).

I'd be astounded if there were people who were actually saying "No! Grandparents can't do ANYTHING Christmassy with DC, EVER!". I'd be a bit put out if my parents or PILs took DS to see Santa for the first time, but not if they bought him a calendar (for example). But we talk about things. It's just unfortunate that good relations can't be assumed for everyone.

Well, you have to deliberately do something to make it a tradition in the first place.

The problem with MIL's I think is that traditionally the woman is expected to run the house. She sets up the festivities and the husband doesn't really care one way or another. When MIL comes in, it's a bit of an invasion because the traditions are coming from her, not the husband. It's like someone not on your work project budging in and telling you what to do because they happen to know someone on the project.

Not that I feel that way about my own MIL she's dead anyway but I think that's why MIL's get a bad rap. Involve your sons in the domestic territory. DH does care about Christmas traditions and has a few of his own he likes doing.

Yes, communication is the missing ingredient.

A couple of the threads that I believe inspired this one had daughters or DILs who had communicated they wanted to be the first to do the calendar/ see Santa/ do the stocking Their DM or DMIL quickly jumped in and did it instead.

Oh dear drastic. You're determined to find fault aren't you. I'm getting an inkling of what it must be like to me a MIL.

to be a MIL